Show Notes:
[00:00:00] Charna Cassell: Welcome back to Ladypin Podcast. This is your host, Charna Cassell, and today's guest is Kennedy Ryan. She's a beautiful musician from Atlanta, a child prodigy, and she is someone I met through Instagram. I loved her music and I reached out I and I randomly said, Hey, if you're ever passing through Oakland, I would love to host you and do a garden concert with you.
[00:00:26] Charna Cassell: And she ended up writing back right away saying, Actually, I am passing through town. And what I would love to do is actually do a listening party. So we ended up creating a dinner party and a listening party for 13 of her. Fans, a little intimate gathering. And it was a really sweet opportunity to, , hear her music and get to know her and her awesome team,
[00:00:54] Charna Cassell: and so this conversation, is an exploration of what it's like to be a musician, the self doubt that can arise. , you know, as she's. breaking through, how, how listening back to the music you've already created and what you've put out into the world. How do you surrender yourself, accept yourself and not try to control people's experience of you and your art
[00:01:18] Learn how to live embodied If it's about to unwind Uncover new tools and start healing Leave trauma and tension behind Isn't it great laid open Let all your desires come true How can you live laid open Imagine yourself brand new. Imagine yourself brand new.
[00:02:02] Charna Cassell: Welcome, Kennedy. It's good to see you again.
[00:02:05] Kennedy Ryon: Thank you. It's good to see you too. Thank you for having me.
[00:02:08] Charna Cassell: What have you been up to since the listening party that I hosted and the dinner party that we had?
[00:02:14] Kennedy Ryon: Mainly still being at home, helping around the house, um, creating new music, trying to like a branch into.
[00:02:25] Kennedy Ryon: different genres i. e like rock going back to my roots which is reggae bob marley mainly just creating like trying to stay in the creative world and write and keep my pin sharp i just had What is it? A show that I did. I got to, I got to sing, uh, two soundtracks for a show called Expats.
[00:02:48] Kennedy Ryon: Shameless plug right here, by the way. I wasn't even planning on mentioning this, but here we are.
[00:02:53] Charna Cassell: It's good. Cause I probably would have asked about it. I'm so glad you're mentioning it. I haven't gotten to see it yet, but that's awesome.
[00:02:59] Kennedy Ryon: Thank you. That's what's going on right now. Trying to like build that build around that, but I had the opportunity to be able to sing two soundtracks for the show expats, which premiered on Amazon this month.
[00:03:14] Kennedy Ryon: And so right now I'm kind of in a space where I'm going back and. Just collecting, like, memories from that experience. I'm still in a space where it's hard for me to No, backtrack.
[00:03:27] Kennedy Ryon: It's not hard for me to listen to myself sing. I'm just really, really critical. Mm hmm. So I kind of have the mindset around listening to myself, seeing something, whether it be like a week ago, a year ago, six months ago. And I want to be able to be like, I didn't like that. No. And I get like frustrated with myself because I'm like, no, you should have saying it like this.
[00:03:53] Kennedy Ryon: So I'm in a space where I'm processing one, the opportunity that was at hand. And two, just. Being, being grateful about it and not operating from a place of like perfection about like how I sound and just Watching my specific episode for what it is and trying to remind myself like this is not about me This was the opportunity specifically for this show.
[00:04:20] Kennedy Ryon: So you gotta like let go of your perfections and perfections and just let it be and listen to it because it's something to learn from, basically, not to get up on a tangent.
[00:04:29] Charna Cassell: No, I get it.
[00:04:30] Kennedy Ryon: That's where I'm at right now, which is just trying to just be, just trust the process just a little bit more and not be, you know, not be so perfect about it.
[00:04:41] Kennedy Ryon: It's not even trying to be like perfect. It's just like, I can't even explain it.
[00:04:45] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Well, it's, it's hard. Once something's out there, there can sometimes be a feeling of like a subtle flavor of powerlessness. Like, Oh, I can't control people's experience while they're digesting this or taking it in. And I wish I could go back.
[00:05:01] Charna Cassell: And maybe there's some regret of like, Oh, if I could have done this differently. And,
[00:05:05] Charna Cassell: you know,
[00:05:05] Charna Cassell: And how to just, how to surrender and, and trust how someone's going to receive something and be like, they're going to get what they need to get. And I gave what I needed to gave, gave,
[00:05:17] Charna Cassell: give.
[00:05:17] Kennedy Ryon: That's what I'm trying to like.
[00:05:20] Kennedy Ryon: Just take from it and just release, can just release control because I, I am going back into a space of like, Oh, when we recorded this, like, I remember this take. And I remember how this take sounded and this isn't the take that I was like, I wanted in, I wanted in this, but it's just exactly what you said of like, okay, the take that I envisioned for it.
[00:05:44] Kennedy Ryon: It's not my decision, I didn't have control over that, which goes back to again, this show is not about me, this moment is not about me, I might have been handpicked for this moment for a reason, but the emotion that I envisioned for it may not be the emotion that was needed for the scene, which is why this take was chosen, but also going back to what you said and remembering like, people are gonna take from that whatever they need to take.
[00:06:12] Kennedy Ryon: So if I don't necessarily feel like All of my emotion was in the take that was chosen. Somebody else is gonna hear that and be like, Whoo! Like, I saw a comment where somebody was like, I've watched this with my mom and we were both bawling. And I was like, okay, well, this is confirmation. You need to like, stop criticizing yourself of how you sounded.
[00:06:32] Kennedy Ryon: And even if you feel you sounded like this. And I'm struggling with not having control over the sound or the take. The emotion and the feeling is still there. And I tell myself 24 seven in music and what I create, it has to have a feeling and it has to have emotion. So that's still in there. So I need to just, like, I need to let it be.
[00:06:57] Kennedy Ryon: So that's what I'm literally in the moment, like trying to do. Let it be. Let it roll off my shoulders is the first project. There'll be many more.
[00:07:05] Charna Cassell: That's right. And it's, you know, it's amazing. So many things every day or an opportunity to practice something, right? And so you're in, you're in let it go boot camp, so to speak, right? Because you're putting, you're putting yourself out there and the more that you put yourself out there, the less control you have.
[00:07:22] Charna Cassell: And
[00:07:22] Kennedy Ryon: you
[00:07:23] Charna Cassell: know, that's, it's a vulnerable and a courageous thing to engage in, to be in the public eye and to put your heart and your, your art. Out.
[00:07:34] Kennedy Ryon: Mm hmm.
[00:07:35] Charna Cassell: To be heard and received. Yeah.
[00:07:37] Kennedy Ryon: Agreed. Yeah.
[00:07:38] Charna Cassell: And so for you, in, in, you just said, you know, you, a little bit about like what you want to convey when you sing something, and I'm curious, you know, what, what motivates you to create music, to write songs?
[00:07:55] Charna Cassell: Like what's one of the hopes that you have or some of the hopes that you have
[00:08:00] Kennedy Ryon: Really, when I create my. Goal for myself first is to just like heal. Just to feel something, to like create a, uh, feeling and a healing one for self first. And then if I decide to be vulnerable and then put out the music or the song that I'm creating and someone else receives that shoot even better, but it's for me first and really for me to just have a place, , where I can express myself with.
[00:08:34] Kennedy Ryon: without judgment of others, but without judgment of self first, because I'm really creating the environment for me. , and really the hope is just kind of, just to create, just allow myself to flourish, , and create something where I don't have, it's not compressed, it's not controlled, it's just to continue, like, reminding myself, like, this is what you do, you're supposed to be doing this.
[00:08:59] Kennedy Ryon: Just do it to do it. Like, no one's holding a gun to your head telling you have to do it this way, you have to sound this way. Like, just do it. It really also is just a space of being able to decompress. It's like the first thing I go to, whether I'm going to create something or whether I'm going to listen to something, but mainly just to, I don't know, feel something otherworldly.
[00:09:20] Kennedy Ryon: It's like, I guess like weird as that may sound, but just to like find, find a different healing or like a different meaning. Cause it's like, I, I make a song and I instantly I'm like get the chills. I'm like, oh, okay. I just, I just healed something in here that I don't even know about yet.
[00:09:38] Charna Cassell: That what you just said, I know that feeling it's, it's, um, so when I, so I write and when I do for years since in my twenties, I've had a timed writing practice.
[00:09:51] Charna Cassell: And so when I write and I don't. Pick up my pen and I just keep going. It's you access your subconscious, right? So you don't even necessarily remember what you've written, but then when you're rewrite reading it and you know, you've written something that, that lands, it resonates, you get those shivers, right?
[00:10:11] Charna Cassell: Those tingles. And I actually connect that with, it happens sometimes when I speak something to a client or to a friend, it's like spirit. Is present is what it feels like to me, where it's like,
[00:10:24] Kennedy Ryon: it's like,
[00:10:24] Kennedy Ryon: basically just like you said, your subconscious is speaking for you. Like it's almost like a. out of body experience, but it's you that's speaking or like you that's doing the writing.
[00:10:37] Kennedy Ryon: You'll understand it, like I know you understand it, but it's just like a song that I created recently. It just, it unlocks something that you weren't able to tap into, almost like an itch that you couldn't scratch. Because a song that I just like created recently, I just, you know, wrote it in like 10 minutes.
[00:10:54] Kennedy Ryon: And I was like, all
[00:10:56] Kennedy Ryon: right, shit.
[00:10:58] Charna Cassell: It's so funny that you specifically using that, that, uh, expression, the itch that you couldn't scratch.
[00:11:04] Charna Cassell: I,
[00:11:05] Charna Cassell: I was working out earlier today and there's this particular machine that's like, if you imagine, you know, wooden planks that move separately that you could put your hands on and they slide and they have some tension on them.
[00:11:18] Charna Cassell: So there's some like, you know, there's some strength building as well. But what it does is it, it, it's unlocking the back of my heart and the back of my ribs. So these particular places that what happens with trauma is, is, uh, there's, The trauma gets stored energetically. It, it, it creates tension in the fascia.
[00:11:38] Charna Cassell: So this whole area is just like, imagine if like, uh, an earthquake occurring, like a positive earthquake where it's starting to shake these up. And so as I'm, I call it scrubbing, as I move these platform, these little platforms back and forth, back and forth, it is like an itch that I couldn't scrub. That's how, what I was thinking of this morning where it's, it's suddenly I can feel my shoulder blades moving in a new way because there's a.
[00:12:02] Charna Cassell: little pieces of trauma that are like separating and breaking and crumbling out. And
[00:12:06] Kennedy Ryon: they're like
[00:12:07] Kennedy Ryon: disintegrating.
[00:12:08] Charna Cassell: Exactly.
[00:12:08] Kennedy Ryon: It's almost like opening up your heart chakra, basically.
[00:12:11] Charna Cassell: Well, and, and accessing like what you're saying, you can do it through scribbling, you know, writing, right? You can do it through physical movement.
[00:12:18] Charna Cassell: You can do it through working at the tissue, but there's. Some kind of unlocking of something that's been stored or stagnant that hasn't had access and then suddenly there's movement. That's an exciting space to be in.
[00:12:31] Kennedy Ryon: It is, yeah.
[00:12:32] Charna Cassell: Yeah. What's your writing? Do you, do you write daily? Like, what's your process for writing?
[00:12:37] Kennedy Ryon: I can't say I write daily because there are definitely days where I'm intentional about like, all right I'm gonna listen to my body. I'm gonna listen to my mind and if I'm not feeling creative and I feel like I need to rest then I'm just gonna like I'm gonna be sedentary and I could choose to be sedentary and then like three o'clock could hit and then I'll have like a list of ideas and I'll be like, well, I, now I feel like I want to create.
[00:13:02] Kennedy Ryon: but really my process when it comes to like writing music, I either like to take myself back to a place or I'll just like, listen to different beats or different sounds or different instruments and just wait until something, something like. just clicks, like something like feels good, like it unlocks something, it unlocks an emotion, it unlocks, like a feeling, like a beat could just be like boom, boom, and I'm like, nah, that doesn't hear anything.
[00:13:34] Kennedy Ryon: But then if it's like a beat and then percussion and then bass, then I'm like, okay, what does this feel like? What do I, what do I want to write about? What do I want to talk about? But even before I really, I try to ask myself what I want to write or talk about, I ask myself like, What does this instrument or what did this sound make me feel like?
[00:13:53] Kennedy Ryon: Does this feel sad? Does this feel happy? Does this feel, um, like I want to dance? Does this feel like I want to lay in bed? Does this feel like, basically just feeling first? Once I understand and unlock the feeling, I, it's so hard to say because the process looks different each time.
[00:14:12] Charna Cassell: Well, you're allowing, there's a theme so far in some of what we've talked about that's about acceptance, right? It's like listening to that song, um, that, you know, is playing nationally and going, Okay, can I accept all of myself?
[00:14:28] Charna Cassell: The part that recorded that song back then, even though I might do it differently today, can I accept myself? And can I just be with what's happening and what I'm feeling right now as it arises as, you know, what I'm feeling now versus trying to control what I'm producing.
[00:14:43] Kennedy Ryon: Right. That's real. That really is what I'm trying to do with like the, uh, expat show because I found myself in a space of like wanting to.
[00:14:54] Kennedy Ryon: control, not necessarily like wanting to control or being anxious about not being able to control the track or the stems that were used for it. And I'm like, okay, instead of being hyper focused on, I felt like this should have been used here. This should have been used there. I realized this was my best vocal.
[00:15:14] Kennedy Ryon: I wish that was put in instead of being hyper focused on that. I need to like, just sit with how I'm feeling, which is anxious. Which is maybe like disappointed in self, um, maybe like nervous because now the take that I envisioned for it isn't in there so I'm afraid that the viewer may not be able to feel what they need to feel or the viewer might be like, This is Kennedy?
[00:15:36] Kennedy Ryon: I don't know about that. I've heard her at her best. But even like that aside, I was really getting to a place of like, I know what my best is and what I heard didn't sound like my best. So instead of getting in a place where I'm like beating myself up about not sounding my best, getting in a place of, um, being anxious because I didn't get to choose which stem was on it, I have to be like, all right, you, this is how I feel.
[00:16:04] Kennedy Ryon: I feel this way because of X, Y, and Z. I can't go back and change it. I can't go back and record these vocals. I can't go into Amazon headquarters and be like, Yo, like, this I feel like this was I I can't do that. I just have to sit with how I'm feeling. Acknowledge it. And then, just let it be. And this shit is hard.
[00:16:26] Kennedy Ryon: Especially given how, like, much of, uh, I hate saying the word perfectionist. Just how much I am like intentional about like my art or about like vocals or how it feels and how it sounds sonically. That's something that's like hard to sit with right now, but I just have to Just going back to it. Like if people are getting what they need to get from it, great.
[00:16:50] Kennedy Ryon: It was an experience and it's one to learn from. And I just have to let it rock. Like, I can't, I can't go back and change that, but I know the next opportunity that I have with Amazon or maybe with FX or with Netflix, I know now like what to take into that experience and how I can be better. And like what I can apply from the Amazon experience into this one to get the results that I guess I envision for myself, not in like a, it sounds selfish, but in a way where I can, I guess, be more proud of the result, I guess, or not even be more proud, but just be more, like you said, be more accepting of the result.
[00:17:31] Charna Cassell: Yeah. I also, I, you didn't say this, but I'm curious about sometimes there can be the fear that we're not going to be fully understood. Yeah.
[00:17:42] Kennedy Ryon: I have trouble with that all the time.
[00:17:43] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Cause I heard you say, oh, but you know, or disappointing people, like people might listen and be like, that doesn't sound like Kennedy.
[00:17:50] Charna Cassell: She can do better. And, and just, you know, trusting that the people are taking in this moment, but then also everything else that we, they know about us and what we, we give or bring to the world, rather than we're not reduced to this one moment or one song.
[00:18:11] Kennedy Ryon: I think that's what I'm putting myself through is like, you have many more opportunities that you will be able to do, like for shows and for movies.
[00:18:21] Kennedy Ryon: This isn't the only one. So I have to learn to, like, better not be hard on myself. And I know that just comes from just childhood experiences. , And again, going back to, like, not being understood. That comes from, like, not being listened to enough, not being heard enough, not being taken seriously enough.
[00:18:43] Kennedy Ryon: So then, That's where it comes up of like, people are gonna be disappointed that just, this doesn't sound how I normally sound. And it's like, no, there's still gonna be people that love it. And at the end of the day, I have to love it for self first. I can't find other people to love it. I have to love it. I have to like it.
[00:19:02] Kennedy Ryon: Not even that. Even if I don't love it, I don't have to like it. I just have to like, learn to accept it. Like, okay, this was the experience. It may not sound how you need it to sound, but. You just gotta take that shit on the back and just, like, let it be, honestly.
[00:19:16] Charna Cassell: Well, and, can, can it be good enough?
[00:19:19] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah, but I'm always trying to be, like, My mindset too that I have to like be better about when it comes to creating is, I don't know, it's a blessing and a curse I'm learning.
[00:19:32] Kennedy Ryon: A lot of people are telling me and a lot of, uh, like other people in the music industry are telling me it's a blessing and a curse. Like even when it comes to, , Mixes and masterings of songs. Like I have a song that I'm about to put out next and I'm like, this doesn't sound like this, this doesn't sound like that.
[00:19:50] Kennedy Ryon: And I have to have people on my team remind me, like, it's not going to sound exactly how you want it to sound. It's not going to sound exactly perfect. It can sound almost perfect, but my mindset is always like, Say I put out a baby mama drama and then I listened to it and I'm like my mindset then is like, uh, that was good, but it could be better.
[00:20:15] Kennedy Ryon: It could be like I made baby mama drama and the song that comes out after that has to be even better. There's no in between. That's like always my mindset.
[00:20:23] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:20:24] Kennedy Ryon: And it definitely is a blessing and a curse.
[00:20:27] Charna Cassell: Well, there's just a little bit of pressure in there, huh?
[00:20:30] Kennedy Ryon: Mm hmm.
[00:20:31] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:20:31] Kennedy Ryon: But the pressure comes from self.
[00:20:33] Kennedy Ryon: It doesn't. Right,
[00:20:33] Charna Cassell: right.
[00:20:34] Kennedy Ryon: It very rarely comes from, it never comes from anyone else, it just comes from me all the time.
[00:20:39] Charna Cassell: Mm
[00:20:39] Charna Cassell: hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, and it, you know, you, you said it already, but when we grow up in environments that feel out of our control, we can become humans who want to maintain control and have control and perfectionism is one way that that can look, right?
[00:20:56] Charna Cassell: Yeah. And so in a certain way, it's a strategy that gets rewarded in our culture versus a different strategy for, you know, trying to control things. But what I'm hearing is, it's not just like you have a song you wrote about being in an abusive relationship, and so it's not just writing about topics that you're processing through and you're healing through, but it's the whole experience itself that's also healing, right?
[00:21:27] Charna Cassell: Yeah. And a practice that you're in.
[00:21:31] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah, because I want to make sure I just unlock each rung of that. I'm like, okay, if I'm going to write about this experience in my past relationship, am I like really writing from a place of like true healing? Am I really writing from a place of true intention? Did I really say what I needed to say?
[00:21:53] Kennedy Ryon: Because once I make this song, I'm not going back to it. Once, once I record it and I sing it like, and we go, okay, that was that take. This is the one I want to use. I'm not going back to it. I'm going to be like, all right, like what's the next beat we can create. And then I'm going to write to the next one.
[00:22:13] Kennedy Ryon: Um, and then it just comes from a place of like being vulnerable. And I think that's another thing, uh, going back to like the whole Amazon thing or not even Amazon, just like the next song that I'm putting out, um, struggling to not ask what everybody else thinks. And by everybody else, I'm constantly asking like what people on my team thinks, and this next song I'm saying the N word a shit ton.
[00:22:40] Kennedy Ryon: So I'm like, uh, I don't know, just a little, a little nervous of how that might be portrayed, but I think it just goes back to, like, the fear of, like, being perceived. It's like, okay, if I say the n word in the song too much, are people gonna think I'm, like, all I say is the n word, or are people gonna think I'm, uh, Ignorant, because this is the type of song that I'm putting out, but then I have to go back and remind myself, this is my art, this is my message, this is what, this is how I felt when I made this record, this is how I felt when I was going through it, so all I'm doing is getting it out and once it's out, that's it.
[00:23:30] Kennedy Ryon: I don't know, but I'm also someone that overthinks a shit ton. A shit ton. And I, like, annoy myself on a daily basis with how much I overthink. Um, but yeah, I just have to remind myself it's my record. It's my story to tell, um, and I have to consistently remind myself it's for me first and then it's for you, however you perceive the song as however you perceive it, it's going to be perceived based off of your experience or based off of your observation of someone else's experience around you.
[00:24:04] Kennedy Ryon: So you're either going to connect with it on the same level or frequency as me or you're going to connect with it on your frequency on your level, but. The message is my message, and I have to not be so strong holded on what, what people think, I guess.
[00:24:23] Charna Cassell: Well, and, and what's hard is the reality is you can't please everybody, right?
[00:24:27] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Right? I mean, you know, you, you, you make, I know you like to cook, I like to cook. Like, you make dinner for, for, for 15 people, it could be delicious, but not everybody eats chicken, right? There still could be one person that's like
[00:24:43] Kennedy Ryon: 14, 14 out of the 15 people could be like, girl, this chicken buns. Like this was good.
[00:24:48] Kennedy Ryon: How do you make this? And the 15th person could be like, it didn't really, it didn't do what it needed to do. It was all right though. And I have to be okay with that because I'm so just in a space currently. Um, I don't even want to claim that I. I used to be in a space,
[00:25:09] Kennedy Ryon: I'm gonna start talking like that, I used to be in a space where, um, I was just really concerned with how other people would feel, like I wanted to make sure everybody would feel it how I felt it, but I cannot, I can't control that.
[00:25:28] Kennedy Ryon: And I have to, Understand to my music is not going to be for everybody and my core audience will continue to find me.
[00:25:37] Charna Cassell: That's right.
[00:25:38] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah.
[00:25:39] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Along the lines of, um, what you write about. Yeah. Are there. Have you noticed I mean and sometimes these things become songs and sometimes they journaling, but have you noticed reoccurring themes.
[00:25:56] Charna Cassell: in your writing and in your songwriting?
[00:26:00] Kennedy Ryon: I think, um, definitely for like the first album, the theme was reoccurring in the sense of like, it was an album touching on my previous abusive relationship. Um, so the theme of that I, damn, I don't even know if I even called it a theme, it was really just a thing of like, this is what I made, this is what I wrote, this is what I wrote, and it all just kind of happened to be coupled of like, all right, well, I'm going to talk about my ex abusive partner and how he made me feel and how that looked like, what that felt like, and I think now the things that I'm creating, they're just, The theme or the writing looks different.
[00:26:46] Kennedy Ryon: Like the other day I created a reggae record and it didn't have anything to do with my past abusive relationship. It didn't have anything to do with a romantic relationship at all. It just had to do with, um, now I'm trying to think it just had to do with like growth. And wanting to grow as a person, but not being able to grow because the people that you have around you keep you stuck in this constant mindset of you can't grow because I'm not going to grow and I'm surely not going to allow you to grow.
[00:27:20] Kennedy Ryon: Um, and then another record I could create would just be about a love song. So I feel like the themes look different. I'm also trying to get my reps in right now. of reminding myself that I can create any style of music that I want to create. I can write about anything that I, um, want to write about, and just visualizing other artists, studying other artists.
[00:27:47] Kennedy Ryon: There are definitely artists who, say if they're an R& B artist, R& B for them works. Like all the way through that's all they create not a bad thing. Not a bad thing at all Some people are like actual isn't that sound so terrible and my intention behind it is not bad But I just gotta preface it with that because that's just how I rock.
[00:28:08] Kennedy Ryon: Um Some people are only one trick ponies when it comes to music. Some people only know how to create music in the style of R& B, and it has the same melody, it has the same cadence, and they write about the same exact thing. And for a lot of people, that works because it's familiar, and in the music industry, what's familiar sells.
[00:28:32] Kennedy Ryon: It's been known, but for me, I don't, um, I don't want to, and I don't like to put myself in just one specific box, um, mainly because I want to remind myself that I'm capable of creating whatever style of music I want. I don't have to just stay in this box. I think also just from studying other artists and just studying the music industry in general, which I understand this is just how the music industry always is, it has to work that way.
[00:29:00] Kennedy Ryon: Um, if I'm signed to, if I ever am signed to a label and I start out making like, R& B music and then the labels like you need to make rock music. Then I guess I better I better be ready to create rock and I better be practicing it right now. If that were to happen, um, I don't know. I enjoy being an independent artist and it definitely is less stressful than having to work with a label.
[00:29:31] Kennedy Ryon: Um, but I just enjoy different genres, um, and just reminding myself. Again, that I'm, I'm not stuck in one box. Um, and I think in the beginning of my artistry, I definitely was scared that I only could create from a place of like pain and could only create from a place of like, uh, talking about my past abusive relationship.
[00:29:59] Kennedy Ryon: And then after doing that, I'm like, No, I can create whatever I want, but that just comes from, like, a stuck mindset at that time of convincing myself, like, I can only create from this space. So right now I'm just reminding myself and not allowing that mindset to, like, seep in or become stuck and just remind myself, like, You've been doing this since you were in elementary school.
[00:30:25] Kennedy Ryon: You, you sing and write about, frickin I don't know, frogs at a pond and going fishing. If you can sing about frogs and going fishing, you damn sure can sing about it's snowing outside right now and that you don't like it being cold. But I also have to remind myself, and it just goes back in the process of, I've been doing it so long, I already know what I'm doing.
[00:30:50] Kennedy Ryon: Like, the only limit that I create in, in music is the one that I have for myself. And right now that's non existent.
[00:30:59] Charna Cassell: Mm
[00:30:59] Charna Cassell: hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:31:00] Charna Cassell: Yeah. That piece about just being able to trust yourself, trust that you know what you're doing and, and trust that people are going to get what they, they need to get. And trust that if not, it does this song, because you say the N word, doesn't land for everybody.
[00:31:15] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah.
[00:31:15] Charna Cassell: That's okay. Great. Cause the next one. It's going to land differently.
[00:31:20] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah, I think that was definitely a hard one too. And my, uh, Atlanta, I did a show at Eddie's addict and it was the first time I did a show. And the space was predominantly white people and I was like, bruh, a couple of these songs are like not, not white people friendly.
[00:31:42] Kennedy Ryon: I'm about to say the N word so many times in here. And I was more concerned with how other people would feel about me saying this versus. me just enjoying the moment for self. And I remember, I think I was just scared that I would like, I don't know, hurt somebody's feelings. Cause I said the N word. And I remember seeing like one woman was in the front row, like right in front of me.
[00:32:12] Kennedy Ryon: And I said it a couple of times and she was like, I was like, Oh, I'm sorry. And then there was like a, yeah, probably like a 55 year old white man in like khaki shorts. And a plaid button down and he was just grinning from ear to ear recording me and I'm like, all right, like You're worried about nothing.
[00:32:33] Kennedy Ryon: Like again, the message is it's going to hit who it needs to hit. It does not matter Um, that's probably like the main thing. I really have to get over is just believing in my artistry past uh not being able to Control if other people feel what they need to feel from it You
[00:32:57] Charna Cassell: Yeah, well that piece, I mean, it's one of the things that I, it's, it's, everyone needs reminding about that.
[00:33:04] Charna Cassell: My clients, my friends, myself, you know, we don't get to control our environment or the people in it, period. We just don't. We get to work on developing more internal peace and spaciousness, and that's pretty much life, right?
[00:33:19] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah.
[00:33:19] Charna Cassell: Um, and, yeah. And then when you're specifically producing something to put out into the world, it's, yeah, you want to have more control.
[00:33:29] Charna Cassell: And that's really my practice this year as well. It's like, I really love collaboration. It's a love language for me. And how do you, how do you collaborate and it, you know, elicit, uh, co leadership rather than having to lead and control everything because a lot of creative, uh, Beauty comes in that the space of rest.
[00:33:54] Charna Cassell: You know, like I really liked what you said earlier in terms of, you know, yeah, no, I don't have a daily writing practice because sometimes I just need to rest and when you accept and allow what is, then the writing or the art can come out sideways, right? It's a byproduct of the rest versus the forcing of, um, that level of continuity.
[00:34:15] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:34:16] Kennedy Ryon: I agree. Cause I can definitely tell the difference when I'm like forcing myself to create music or forcing myself to write a song versus. I'm good about if we in the studio and I'm writing if I'm in the studio by myself or if I'm in the studio with Swankie and I'm like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not getting anything right now.
[00:34:37] Kennedy Ryon: Like we're going to have to continue this tomorrow. I'm glad I'm good about that and glad that I have a team of people who are like, you know what, that's fine. Cause I feel like I've definitely been in studio sessions before with a different team of people where it didn't look like that. It looked like you need to, you need to write and you need to get it right the first time.
[00:35:01] Kennedy Ryon: And if you're not able to write this song in like 30 minutes, then you're not even an artist. Like, like, what are you doing? And then through more research, you learn. Some of the greatest people who have made hits it took them a week so whenever I get in spaces where I feel like not necessarily, I can't create something or that I don't have the capacity to fully write to this right now. It doesn't mean that I don't know how to, it doesn't mean that I don't have it. It just means that I'm honoring, like, you don't have it right now.
[00:35:34] Kennedy Ryon: And if you just sit with that and not force it. The next time you come back to the song, it's just gonna come out like water. Mm hmm. Sometimes the process looks like water, and sometimes it looks like it's just a dripping faucet.
[00:35:47] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm. Oh, well, and, and, you know, in terms of when you're in a very stressed or traumatized state, like, one of the things that, that a byproduct of trauma is often, um, It's well, I'm going to correct myself because sometimes people create a lot from that place and other times it it can it can interrupt the capacity to imagine right and to be creative and and so often in the process of healing creativity can flow back in right and it can it can re emerge And I know for myself, if I've been in a, an urgent place, like I lost an 80 page chapter in a book, it disappeared and was replaced by asterisks the whole entire chapter and it was a painful chapter to write.
[00:36:36] Charna Cassell: And I was like, I was having a panic attack and my friend was like, let's look how about let's go for a walk and I was like, I can't. I mean this is like years ago and I see the value now but still I was like, I can't go for a walk. You know, right. Right. The reality is that space of stepping away and, and actually coming back into a regulated space, you know?
[00:37:00] Charna Cassell: Mm-Hmm. taking care of your nervous system. Mm-Hmm. then allows creativity or what's next to be re-established.
[00:37:07] Charna Cassell: You were saying that you get into your head a lot, you overthink things, like these are, that's one of the things that gets in your way. What are some of the resources? What are some of the things that, who are the people or what are the activities that resource you?
[00:37:22] Kennedy Ryon: Really, if I ever get into a space where I'm like getting into my head and I think we all as artists, and if artists say that they never get into a place of like doubt, like at least just once every once in a while, you're lying.
[00:37:41] Kennedy Ryon: It's gonna come about because one being in music is very vulnerable. And two, especially when you're in an industry that's big. It's like gonna happen. But I think if ever I get into a space where I'm like doubting or I get into my head or I may be overthinking a song too much, overthinking the process too much, I might go for a walk just like you said.
[00:38:05] Kennedy Ryon: I might just put the pen down for a second. I might, , like pause the song, pause what I'm working on in listening to something that I know will bring about inspiration for me. It could be like making my own song and in the middle of me like making it. just saying I could be like, I don't know about this song.
[00:38:25] Kennedy Ryon: I'm not liking this. And then just being like, well, nothing's coming about. And I could turn on like Amy Winehouse or Bob Marley and feel like sonically that inspiration, like sonically, like, , that push, or I can feel like Their excitement that they had in creating the song or like their self belief It's just like a feeling in the music like a vibration Just makes you like want to get up makes you want to go like do the laundry It makes you want to wash the dishes makes you want to like wash your hair or something like that So I just listen to something or watch something that is Encouraging or brings about a feeling of like no you can do this or sometimes I might You A lot of time I'm watching like documentaries or like YouTube shorts about other artists who might struggle with the same thing.
[00:39:13] Kennedy Ryon: Try to watch people who, , deal with the same thing, even at that same caliber of like, okay, this clearly is a great and a great deals with the same exact thing.
[00:39:24] Kennedy Ryon: How do they get through it? So I like to take the advice or just, Listen to other people. okay, I just talked to my therapist or I just sit with it. , I realized like me being this famous is not that normal. Or it's the same as like, I take my artistry very seriously, but sometimes it might just look like meditating, turning on a meditation that involves affirmations and just saying the affirmations to myself.
[00:39:52] Kennedy Ryon: Over and over again. And then even if I say the affirmations and I may not feel any more like the push to go back to creating, I might just sit with the affirmation, , sit with big, upping myself and then starting it again tomorrow.
[00:40:04] Charna Cassell: How about when you're a kiddo? Like, I know for me, making art and writing Or really big resources.
[00:40:12] Charna Cassell: It was it was actually, you know, it's like the in terms of brainwaves when you're meditating or when you're creating art. Or in a creative zone, you produce alpha brainwaves, right? this really calm state of mind. And, a lot of alpha also anesthetizes you to a chaotic environment. So I know that I was in that state a lot as a kid.
[00:40:33] Charna Cassell: And so I'm curious, I mean, it's great that you, you, cause you really named, it sounds like you've got a great community and you've got people that you can draw from and talk to. And so what about when you were a kid? Like what, what were you, who were, or what were your resources?
[00:40:47] Kennedy Ryon: I didn't have that as a kid.
[00:40:48] Kennedy Ryon: was like my only resource. , and that is a major reason. Why I picked up music in the first place is it was like an escape. I can't control my environment. I can't control not having enough food on the table. I can't control mom and dad arguing all the time. I can't control this like chaos and trauma that surrounds me.
[00:41:16] Kennedy Ryon: What can I control? Making a song, , listening to a song, picking up this instrument and creating something. But I didn't have that, uh, like, Push as a child. I didn't have that reassurance as a child. And if I did, it felt very transactional. , and that's something that, um, , still figuring out like to this day, , and still understanding, but it's definitely why I got started in music in the first place as an escape.
[00:41:49] Kennedy Ryon: Or even then, like I would just read books.
[00:41:51] Charna Cassell: Totally. Oh my God. There's still a feeling. It's really interesting. I was in grad school to be a psychotherapist and mostly we were reading like theory books. And then this one child therapy class, we got to read novels and it'd been a while since I'd just read pleasure books.
[00:42:07] Charna Cassell: And. I was reading this Barbara Kingsolver novel and the feeling that came over my body and I, you know, my mom had been a heroin addict. I have not ever tried heroin, but when I read there is a quality of like, just like melting into the bed and just feeling expansive and soft and melty that just, when I'm in love with a book I'm reading.
[00:42:34] Charna Cassell: You know, being a trauma therapist, I can observe that experience and go like, Oh, wow. This is why I brought a trunk of books to camp with me. You know, like books for me were such an escape and such a resource and they soothed my nervous system like nothing else.
[00:42:50] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah. When I was a kid in my, uh, what is it?
[00:42:54] Kennedy Ryon: I think it was fifth grade and my fifth grade class, Ms. Ditmars, that was the best teacher. That lady was like my mom. She was literally like my mom. , I was like obsessed at the time with the Berenstain Bears. I think it was the Berenstain Bears. Yeah, I was obsessed at the time with the Berenstain Bears books.
[00:43:13] Kennedy Ryon: And she had like a shelf, , you know how like they have those little, what's it called, them little ceramic shelves. They're like light brown or whatever, like taupe or something at like the libraries. She had one of those in the classroom and it was just stacked and stacked and stacked with books. And once I discovered the Berenstain Bears books and just how they made me feel.
[00:43:31] Kennedy Ryon: And of course, like the Berenstain Bears, like, It's just about like family and the lessons that come with the books and just the, the, the love that came with the books, the. Nurturing that they had for one another that the parents had for their children. It's like I just became engulfed in that and it was just like an escape from not having that as a child.
[00:43:53] Kennedy Ryon: So I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is great. And then I remember I would just like take a book here home, take a book here home. And then one day it just eventually I just took all of the books home. I remember I think I was supposed to like tell her like. If you, you have to like ask for the book, like I would read them in class, but it got to a point where I was just like, this is just so good.
[00:44:15] Kennedy Ryon: And I know my mom and dad are not going to buy me these books. So I just, I took them just a child, not thinking I didn't think it was anything bad. And then took them home. And I remember one day I came back to class and I put all the books back on the shelf and she saw me putting them on the shelf.
[00:44:31] Kennedy Ryon: She's like, Kennedy. And she sat me down and she was like, I, I'm so proud of you and I love that you're enjoying reading. I'm glad that you want to read, but if you, she was just like, if you want to take a book home, all you have to do is ask. And just having that was like, I'll just, I'll never forget that experience.
[00:44:52] Kennedy Ryon: I'll never forget her as a teacher and just what she taught me at that time when I needed that, , and just them books in general, like I was, I was just obsessed back then I was obsessed with reading, I'm not able to. Like completely read now and just like focus. I'm trying to get into a space. I think now as an adult reading for me is intimidating.
[00:45:13] Kennedy Ryon: Like being like struggling to focus. So now what I try to do is just, , listen to an audio book and read it at the same time, which helps until I can get to a place where I don't need the audio book. And I can just read it and, like, be able to just focus in on that because I have, like, a issue with, like, reading the same line over and over again.
[00:45:35] Charna Cassell: Yeah, well, you know, granted, even if you're someone who is a huge reader as a kid, the way with internet and social media and our attention spans are so reduced, it makes it hard for anyone to read, you know? Yeah. , and then you add trauma, like I, a lot of the time ADHD is actually a trauma response. It's like, I have to be vigilant and tracking everything, which makes it hard to focus, you know?
[00:46:03] Charna Cassell: , so I love that. That's a creative way to approach that, to combine the audiobook with the reading. But so in that, I hear that there's, there's reading, there's making music, but there was also this teacher. And that also for me, like teachers were school was my happy place to a certain degree because teachers were validating for me and they're present with me.
[00:46:26] Charna Cassell: , unlike at home and, and it made a huge difference. And so I just, yeah, a big, a big, You know, big hug out there for all the teachers that make such a huge difference in, in kids lives. And
[00:46:37] Kennedy Ryon: especially during COVID cause they were down.
[00:46:40] Charna Cassell: Oh my God, holding it down. Yeah, seriously. So many, yeah. My teacher clients were going through it.
[00:46:46] Charna Cassell: That was a lot. That was a whole lot.
[00:46:48] Kennedy Ryon: Yeah. I'm glad that they had you as a therapist and that they had therapy as a resource because a lot didn't. And I know COVID alone was shit because parents weren't doing anything. Parents were tired. Curriculums were not doing what they needed to do. So I got to throw that out there.
[00:47:05] Kennedy Ryon: Cause if that's how she, if that's how, uh, my teacher, damn, I don't even know if I should say her name. Might have to chop that out. I don't know if she might want her name here.
[00:47:13] Charna Cassell: Yeah, no, no. She's probably, I mean, gosh, if she's listening. Do you know how moved she would be?
[00:47:19] Charna Cassell: My mom was a special ed teacher for 30 years, and so bumping into your, to your students 20 years later and knowing you've made a difference, that's an amazing thing. So. She's probably moved if she's listening.
[00:47:32] Kennedy Ryon: No, she, she knows what I'm doing now. She had randomly hit me up on Facebook.
[00:47:36] Kennedy Ryon: I think last year and was like, I'm so proud of you. And I always knew. And I'm like,
[00:47:40] Charna Cassell: yeah,
[00:47:41] Kennedy Ryon: which I was wild too. She was like everybody's favorite teacher in 20. 13, I think, 20, I think it was 2013 when I'd gone into like the mental hospital for the first time.
[00:47:54] Kennedy Ryon: I don't remember how, I don't remember how she found that I was in the mental hospital. I hadn't seen her since I was in fifth grade. She came to visit me in the mental hospital. I had no idea. And I'm like, girl, what are you doing here? That one was an angel. So yeah.
[00:48:10] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Well, she, she clearly had a lot of love for you and care for you and wanted to, to show you that and knew you're worth showing that too.
[00:48:19] Charna Cassell: So I'm glad you had her. Really glad. Thank you, me too. That's so important. Yeah.
[00:48:31] Charna Cassell: So, we're gonna need to wrap up soon, although, like in typical Charna fashion, I write a zillion questions and then I go offloading and I ask what I want to ask. It's okay, I do the same thing. Yeah, I love, you know, I think that overpreparing, it like, lets the, the little worrier inside of us. Um, it's like, you know, like, it's like, I've got a script.
[00:48:53] Charna Cassell: It's like, how do you have a script? sit down and just get. Get grounded and, and, and hold a space, you know, a bigger structure that we can then roam around in. I think that
[00:48:59] Kennedy Ryon: makes it more authentic because instead of sometimes reading from a script, you're asking questions that, you know, may resonate, I guess.
[00:49:06] Charna Cassell: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you're gonna play a song for us. Which is exciting. You don't have to play it live. We will add it in, my love. Okay, good. So, so you can, but what song do you want to share with us?
[00:49:24] Kennedy Ryon: Evergreen because Evergreen is like everybody's favorite, but also Evergreen was like the song that really just pushed, pushed the needle for me in Evergreen is a cover. It's originally, uh, , you have a Smith song, but Evergreen is like the song that I go back to every once in a while, just as like a reminder, it's also a feel good song.
[00:49:47] Kennedy Ryon: It's a healing song. So I think Evergreen would be very fitting to place in here.
[00:49:52] I kissed my penny and I threw it in. I prayed I'd keep my soul. Went down to the river where the water bends. The only place I know. I can't see the forest for the trees. So will you wait for me? Will you wait for me? Will you wait for me, my evergreen? Standing at the water's edge.
[00:50:56] The Mississippi's overflowing, yeah Hold your current in my hand You bring the meaning to my moments Oh, I can't The forest for the trees So So will you wait for me? Will you wait for me? Will you wait for me? My evergreen Green Oh, I can't sleep The forest for the trees Oh, I feel so Hopeless against the
[00:52:13] Transcribed by So will you wait for me, my evergreen? I know it's just as hard in heaven. So will you wait for me, my evergreen? I know it's just as hard. My evergreen. Evergreen, my evergreen.
[00:53:03] Charna Cassell: Perfect. We love it. We love it. And how else can people find you?
[00:53:10] Kennedy Ryon: So you can find me on Instagram at kennedy. ryan, uh, youtube kennedy. ryan, people say x, I don't be on Twitter like that, but if you want to add me on Twitter, it's also kennedy.
[00:53:25] Kennedy Ryon: ryan, Spell your la R Y O N. Thank you, cause I always forget to do this. And I just think everybody's gonna be able to spell it. R Y O N. Ryan is R Y O N. , same for Apple Music, SoundCloud, Spotify, DistroKid, Weezer, if you still play with Weezer, uh, what else? Basically all platforms.
[00:53:49] Kennedy Ryon: Kennedy dot Ryan. R Y O N. Beautiful.
[00:53:51] Charna Cassell: Beautiful.
[00:53:53] Charna Cassell: Anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners before we start to wrap up?
[00:53:58] Kennedy Ryon: I'd like to just say if you're new here, new as in new to me, new to my artistry. I hope you stick around for the long run because I plan to be doing this until I'm like 70 years old.
[00:54:13] Kennedy Ryon: And if you're an OG and you're here, thank you very much for your support. Thank you very much for your love and your affirmation. And then Trana, of course, thank you for having me on this podcast and giving me the space and giving me your time because time is one of the most valuable things. And yeah, I'm just grateful.
[00:54:28] Kennedy Ryon: Just. grateful to be here, grateful for the opportunity, grateful for the space, grateful to be able to tell my story.
[00:54:36] Charna Cassell: Well, you know, the, the, that piece, it's ultimately that, that, that, you know, people can say, Oh, gratitude, it's, it's overplayed or whatever, feeling grateful. And it's like, actually gratitude, it's the heart brain coherent state, and it's a state of wellbeing. Even those moments where you can touch into gratitude are actually deeply healing.
[00:55:00] Kennedy Ryon: Again, thank you very much.
[00:55:02] Kennedy Ryon: I'm very grateful. Be safe. And I'll talk to you again.
[00:55:06] Charna Cassell: All right. Take good care. Thank you for joining us. If you appreciated this episode, please like, rate and review it and share with your friends. I'd really appreciate it. And if you'd like to stay connected, you can find me on Facebook and Instagram at LaidOPEN Podcast. As well as If you go to charnacacell.
[00:55:23] Charna Cassell: com and join my newsletter, you'll receive up and coming announcements about courses, as well as resources and discounts.
[00:55:32] Charna Cassell: This has been Laid Open Podcast with your host, Charna Cassell. We all have different capacities, but I believe in our capacity to grow and change together. Until next time.
