Show Notes
[00:00:00] Charna Cassell: Welcome back to Laid Open Podcast. This is your host, Charna Cassell, and today's guest, Alreen Haeggquist, is a women's rights advocate and a lawyer who defends women dealing with sexual abuse, harassment, and discrimination. And our conversation was so interesting because she can help talk about some of the nuts and How to deal with a lawyer and, , face that situation if you're considering taking up a case, but also her personal experience.
[00:00:33] Charna Cassell: She wrote a memoir about her own experience with sexual abuse inside her family. And her process of healing. So, you know, she's really an advocate for women's voices to be heard. And she models that through her work in the world and her own personal sharing. So she's a very rare, breed, , and courageous woman.
[00:00:57] Charna Cassell: And I hope you enjoy this episode and find that it's helpful to you. I look forward to you listening.
[00:01:05] Learn how to live embodied If it's about to unwind Uncover new tools and start healing Leave trauma and tension behind Isn't it great laid open Let all your desires come true How can you live laid open Imagine yourself brand new. Imagine yourself brand new.
[00:01:51] Charna Cassell: Welcome Alreen.
[00:01:53] Arleen Haeggquist: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:55] Charna Cassell: I'm so glad that this, this worked out and I've been really looking forward to this conversation because I feel like.
[00:02:02] Charna Cassell: What you have to offer your you're not only your personal life experience, but your professional experience as a lawyer, a women's right advocate. someone who speaks out and stands for, you know, non discrimination, , rights for, for folks when they're dealing with history of sexual trauma and sexual assault, , is really important.
[00:02:26] Charna Cassell: So, thank you for being here.
[00:02:28] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, my pleasure.
[00:02:30] Charna Cassell: And so, can you start with sharing a little bit about, um, , you, your you founded your firm, um, 16 years ago.
[00:02:40] Arleen Haeggquist: Yes.
[00:02:41] Charna Cassell: And what was your intention when you created it?
[00:02:46] Arleen Haeggquist: I wanted a place for one, the people that worked here to create a culture where there was no ceiling for a woman to advance as a partner and as a lawyer.
[00:02:55] Arleen Haeggquist: and I also wanted to create a place for clients to come to where they had attorneys that understood what they had gone through and could understand the experiences that they were having, not in the same way, but they could relate. to what they experienced. A lot of the firms at the time were very male dominated, male centric, and there wasn't a lot of female owned firms.
[00:03:16] Arleen Haeggquist: So I really wanted something different for myself, for my employees, and the clients that I represented.
[00:03:23] Charna Cassell: And you're located in Los Angeles, is that right?
[00:03:26] Arleen Haeggquist: I'm in San Diego.
[00:03:27] Charna Cassell: Okay, okay, great, San Diego. And so do people, do people actually reach out to you from all over, or is it more like centrally located in your area?
[00:03:38] Arleen Haeggquist: I would say people reach out all over from California. , we have a primary presence here in San Diego because that's where we've been, but people from all over the state reach Um, contact us and it's become primarily women that contact us just again, because we're unique, , in the way that we have a female owned firm and represent women on behalf of gender discrimination, sexual harassment, sexual assault, where I think women are uniquely placed to do those cases as opposed to men.
[00:04:08] Charna Cassell: Well, and you also have your, your trauma informed and you have a survivor advocate.
[00:04:14] Arleen Haeggquist: Yes, which is also very unique, and I also think is very important. , she's a non lawyer. She's a non therapist. , those two people are also important, but what's unique about her is she's gone through the litigation process herself, , and she is certified as a survivor advocate.
[00:04:30] Arleen Haeggquist: To help you through the process as you have anxiety, you don't know what all the term, terminology means. You might not know why some, you know, the lawyer might be doing a certain thing. She connects you to resources, to therapists if you're having a, you know, hard time finding one. , she provides, you know, grounding techniques to kind of bring you back to the present, um, sometimes when you're spiraling.
[00:04:49] Arleen Haeggquist: So she's a wealth of information and it's a wonderful resource at our firm.
[00:04:54] Charna Cassell: Which also like a lot of the things that you just described there. are trauma informed and is there anything else that you would add if somebody doesn't know what that means and is looking for a lawyer and things to look out for like green flags as well as red flags?
[00:05:11] Arleen Haeggquist: So the, the reason that we have a trauma informed, , survivor advocate, and she provides training to all the lawyers and all the staff here at the firm so that when a client comes into our office, we're not re traumatizing them by just asking them questions. Like words matter. And so she trains us on how we approach certain situations, helps us understand, you know, people aren't going to provide you this like nice linear chronological story.
[00:05:37] Arleen Haeggquist: That you expect to receive. That's not how trauma works. They come in fragmented pieces, and it's our job as lawyers to put those pieces together. And it's not just going to happen in one session. Like, we're have to, we have to have multiple meetings with people to get that information. So I think that's more of a holistic approach towards a person and a client that comes into our office and not just like, oh, you're here for a lawsuit.
[00:06:01] Arleen Haeggquist: You know, I'm going to go through these, this checklist of information that I need.
[00:06:05] Charna Cassell: That is so fantastic, like knowing that you exist and that those are some standards and values that you have in your firm is, is remarkable. And can you imagine if that was the standard for every rape trial? Like how unbelievable would that be, right?
[00:06:24] Charna Cassell: I
[00:06:24] Arleen Haeggquist: agree.
[00:06:25] Charna Cassell: Oh my god.
[00:06:26] Charna Cassell: I love that.
[00:06:27] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, and Kristi is really, Kristi is a survivor advocate. She believes in it so strongly. That's really what she's been pitching. Like, law firms need to have a survivor advocate if you're going to do this work. You need to understand how trauma works. And you can't just do the case if you don't have a baseline understanding of what that's doing to the client that's coming into your office.
[00:06:47] Charna Cassell: Well, in the same line of questioning that's occurred for forever, right, it's like, well, why didn't you say no? Well, if we have a basic understanding of how the nervous system works and how your vocal cords can even freeze, or if you, I mean, there's just so many pieces of basic psychology and nervous system education that all judges, all lawyers should have.
[00:07:09] Arleen Haeggquist: Right. That's totally, totally correct. Yep. But we don't. We're not trained in that in law school.
[00:07:15] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yeah. How did you, you know, so you have a book, you're not, you know, you're a lawyer as well as an author and Fired Up, Fueling Triumph from Trauma is the name of your book. And it's, , it's a memoir. And how did Given your history, like, and then being in an environment that is so male dominated, that is so, like, assaultive in its own way, how did that work for you, and how, how was that regarding, like, getting potentially re traumatized, , having compassion fatigue, like, what, what was that experience?
[00:07:55] Arleen Haeggquist: It was a
[00:07:55] Arleen Haeggquist: process and it continues to be a process. , it wasn't overnight. So I had prior to coming out with the book, obviously had done a lot of self work, , lots of therapy, lots of different healing modalities before I got to the point of sharing my story with the world. But the reason I felt like it was so important is because by not staying silent is really the way you start to heal yourself from your past trauma.
[00:08:21] Arleen Haeggquist: For me to share it in the book, that was my way to show women, show women, how do you speak your truth?
[00:08:27] Arleen Haeggquist: How do you come out and come forward? And it doesn't have to be writing a book, but you need to start somewhere. And so that was the reason I wrote it. And, you know, all the women that come to my office, you know, they have to share their story.
[00:08:39] Arleen Haeggquist: They have to make their story public. They have to be cross examined about it. But despite all that, at the end of it, they feel empowered and empowered. hopeful as opposed to the helpless person and the scared person that came in when they started, started off the case. And so I've seen it from experience when women stop the silence and share their story.
[00:08:58] Arleen Haeggquist: And I've with my own personal self, , how I've transformed by no longer letting it That's really how I have progressed and triumphed, despite the circumstances that I experienced when I was a child
[00:09:14] Charna Cassell: so first of all, thank you for writing your book, , and I'm curious, did you, did that come out after Me Too?
[00:09:22] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, so, and I have a whole part about this in my book. During Me Too, I mean, I was so excited for women, and I was so excited that people were sharing their story, but at the same time, I was so scared to share my own. I never even said me too,
[00:09:36] Charna Cassell: right.
[00:09:37] Arleen Haeggquist: And it made me feel horrible about myself. I felt like such a hypocrite for encouraging all these women in my office to step forward, but I couldn't do it myself.
[00:09:46] Arleen Haeggquist: And you know, what was the final, like you got to come out. It was really a process of like, you, this is powerful by speaking out me too. It's not only powerful for your own being, it helps all these other people come forward and, and share their story.
[00:10:05] Charna Cassell: Well, and in particular, you know, in, in certain roles, right, like I know that traditionally as a psychotherapist, we're supposed to be a blank slate, right?
[00:10:16] Charna Cassell: We're supposed to be like, you know, keep all of our personal information to ourselves. I have found over time, like, my personal style is actually being more transparent because it levels the power playing field, right, so clients don't feel as much like I have one up. And I could imagine, I wondered about, I pictured you giving this book to clients and wondered if you used it as a tool to create safety with the people that you work with.
[00:10:44] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, I mean, I, I share my book, um, with them just to let them know that I have experienced something similar in my life. , and that I know what a journey it is that I know that it's, it's not overnight. It's not even in a month. It's, it's a journey to get there. And that's why I can understand and support them as they go through this process.
[00:11:06] Arleen Haeggquist: , but it will happen, right? Like it's. It's not hopeless, it's, you gotta see the light, you know, there's a light to it.
[00:11:14] Charna Cassell: Well, and, and again, this piece of, I know that I'm on, you know, on the other side, and we talked a little offline about what an ongoing process healing is. There's these repeated cycles that you go through, and it, it just because you, you, you've, your body has spoken through something, you verbalize something, it doesn't mean it's totally complete.
[00:11:36] Charna Cassell: in your nervous system. But the fact that you wrote this book and that you're sitting here as an advocate for them in itself is a beacon, right? And have you had clients read the book and come back to you and go like, Oh, here, here are some, I, I, based on how you healed, I have sought out these different resources.
[00:11:58] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. And a lot of clients have just come to me and like, just told me like, you really pinpointed exactly how I felt during this time. You know, you described the feelings as you're working through it your book has helped me see that I need to talk about it. I mean, I just received an email this week from someone that was like, you know, I haven't talked about the situation that happened to me in the past, but your book brought it up Yeah.
[00:12:25] Arleen Haeggquist: And makes me and now I'm addressing it in therapy, you know, and so that's beautiful to hear. That's the entire point of my book is coming out so I can help somebody else take the steps to start talking about it and heal from it. And regarding the process, I mean, when I went, when I first started seeing my therapist, I thought I was going to go 4 times.
[00:12:46] Arleen Haeggquist: I was going to talk about what happened to me when I was a kid. And we're gonna be done. I'm just gonna be ready to move on. Yep, check the box. We're good to go. You know, I'll see my therapist tomorrow. You know, it's every part. What I've learned is things keep coming up in your life. And you are using the therapist or the other tools that you've gathered in your toolbox to help process the information and kind of get you to the next level.
[00:13:15] Arleen Haeggquist: And it just, there's not a stop to it because life is going to continue. Things are going to be thrown at you throughout your life. And you're going to need to work through it because it's, it brings back in some way or another, um, the, the trauma that you experienced.
[00:13:33] Charna Cassell: Right. Well, and I just, you know, again, I, I imagine that for you, uh, doing the work that you do, um, potentially feeling the rage with each woman's story that comes into you and the discrimination or the abuse or oppression that they're dealing with And, you know, that, that often present day experiences of powerlessness, even if they're tiny, could be dealing with the insurance company or AT& T or something, you know, , let alone what you're dealing with at work, can then trigger your own personal, original, like, youngest experiences of powerlessness.
[00:14:13] Arleen Haeggquist: That's correct. But that's how I've used that in the law. It's actually what helps me be a powerful advocate for my client. So yes, I still feel very rageful. And so that rage, you know, before I, I didn't have it in control or in check, I guess, because I didn't recognize that's what was happening. But now with that awareness, When that rage comes on me, I recognize that it's happening.
[00:14:40] Arleen Haeggquist: I breathe through it, but I still come out very fierce in responding to whatever's being thrown. You know, like what we were talking about earlier, like the, you know, the client, well, your client, you know, didn't say no in this situation, you know, if she didn't, you know, want this to happen to her, then she could have voiced, you know, her, no, she just went along with it.
[00:14:58] Arleen Haeggquist: And so that gets me really fired up for what we were talking about. That's not. Okay., How it works. that's not how the nervous system works and not everybody has the same response when they're experiencing sexual assault. , and so that it, I think it kind of scares people because they're like, okay, she's, she's not going to accept whatever I'm just throwing at her.
[00:15:19] Arleen Haeggquist: Well, and she's not going to
[00:15:20] Arleen Haeggquist: go away.
[00:15:22] Charna Cassell: One of the things I appreciated in your book, , and you, you referred to it just now a little bit, but you, you gave this part of yourself, this rageful part of yourself a name, , Insane Hussein. Yeah. And, and that she comes, that she would come out in different moments and that you learned how to have a relationship to her.
[00:15:41] Charna Cassell: What I really appreciate, and you may know about parts work. , so whether you're following something like, you know, um, Dick Schwartz's style of internal family systems, no bad parts, or if you're just any trauma informed work is going to address parts of us, right? We have so many different conflicting parts.
[00:16:00] Charna Cassell: The part that loves your father, who is your abuser, the part that, , wants to destroy him and all men. Potentially, or any, anybody who's oppressing somebody, right? And so how a part of healing is befriending, accepting, as well as being grateful for all the range of parts, not the, just the pretty good girl parts, right?
[00:16:26] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, that's, that took me a long time to, to grasp. , and it wasn't until my body, I had a lot of physical manifestations in my body, , through ulcers and. I couldn't understand what was happening. I thought it was a medical condition and it was really coming to terms and I did inner child work coming to terms with how the abuse as a child made me feel.
[00:16:49] Arleen Haeggquist: and accepting that as opposed to trying to push it away, right? That's like you want that. You want to resist it. You're like, I don't like it. Go away. And as opposed to absorbing it, but that's a part of you and it's, everything's going to be okay. Right? Like I'm now the adult of my life that I was hoping existed when I was a child to tell me, okay, it's going to be okay.
[00:17:12] Arleen Haeggquist: And taking that piece as part of me, , was what stopped the physical manifestations in my body. And that's just so powerful, but it's hard for people, it was hard for me to connect the mind body part of it. And I think people have a hard time grasping it, but it's like, once you get it and it happens to you, it's so powerful.
[00:17:32] Arleen Haeggquist: And same with the aspect of rage. It's like, you know, it was affecting my relationship. So I was trying to push it away. Like, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be that rageful, angry person. And that's how my father was. And I, you know, I was trying to push it as opposed to accepting it and recognizing that's powerful when used.
[00:17:51] Arleen Haeggquist: You know, in an affirmative way, right? It's not a negative. It's still part of you, but you can harness it. You know, for good, essentially,
[00:18:01] Charna Cassell: well, and what you just pointed to is really important in terms of, you know, seeing like, Oh, I don't want to be anything like this abuser. I don't want to the fear of being that person.
[00:18:12] Charna Cassell: And so then pushing away something that ultimately could be used to empower you. And that anytime we cut ourselves off from, uh, part of ourself, right? It's, it, it's, It's, we, we disown it. It's also disempowering because we're making part of ourselves bad and we're kind of like, think about it, if you cut off a limb, right, you have, you don't have that hand to, to fight with or to, you know, to, to reach for what you want with, right?
[00:18:42] Charna Cassell: It's like we, we, we aren't totally whole in that way.
[00:18:45] Arleen Haeggquist: Exactly.
[00:18:46] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I was curious about, like, post Me Too has, , has there been a, a bigger influx? Are more people as a result of that coming forward? Are you, are you, I imagined, like, your caseload got massive, but I, I don't know if that's true.
[00:19:04] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, I mean, I, What, that's what Me Too is all about. Right? As a result of sexual trauma, sexual abuse, you really feel like you're all alone. Like this hasn't happened to anybody else. Mm-Hmm. . And the only person that has happened to is you. If people find out, you know, they either won't believe you, you know, they think you'll, they'll think you're at fault.
[00:19:23] Arleen Haeggquist: And so that aloneness. After the me to movement changed, right? Me too. People are realizing. Oh, wow, that that was happening this whole time. Well, that happened to me as well. So, yes, there wasn't. increase in women coming forward and being able to tell their story. And I think it's resulted in women not accepting it anymore.
[00:19:43] Arleen Haeggquist: We're changing society. We're changing cultural norms. Like this is not acceptable behavior and we're not just going to stay silent and let you get away with it anymore. So that was a really big shift, which is why I'm so proud of the women. Who initially came forward because that initial step was really hard, but it had such a huge, profound rippling effect on so many others.
[00:20:07] Charna Cassell: And do you see that? So like, you know, one of the things that I. want to contribute in the world is, I would love for enough trauma education to be part of, like, household awareness, knowledge, that it does change what happens in rape trials, right? Yes. There is that, that line of questioning is gone. Right.
[00:20:27] Charna Cassell: You know, and so I'm curious, like, how has that changed? Do you, are, Are you an exception, or do you feel like other lawyers and situations, cases that you're in, that there is more awareness?
[00:20:44] Arleen Haeggquist: I think it's starting. I think it's starting. So I still think we're, we're unique. I do think it's starting, but because we're doing, you know, there's training on trauma informed lawyering.
[00:20:54] Arleen Haeggquist: Like now when we go to conferences, that's a section, you know, at the conference, right. For lawyers to do a better job because your, your clients have experienced trauma. So how are you not trauma informed? So I think it's changing, but that's a shift that I've seen in the past. Like, One to two years where this is showing up in our conferences and we're having a discussion about it more regularly.
[00:21:17] Arleen Haeggquist: , whereas before, and I feel like that's in society to like, people are are now talking about it. Just like, you know, mental illness, like, that wasn't talked about. And people are now just becoming more aware of being okay to talk about it because they recognize they're not all alone when they do.
[00:21:35] Charna Cassell: Yeah, it's, it's a tricky thing.
[00:21:37] Charna Cassell: I have a lot of friends who do, you know, gender or racial equity trainings in big institutions or even with police and things like that. And, and, um, You know, sometimes it's just a required short little course where they can check it off. It's not as as thorough and other situations. It's much more thorough.
[00:21:58] Charna Cassell: So my hope is that it, , it isn't something that's just a see, you know, continuing education requirements, so to speak, and that it becomes an actual culture changer.
[00:22:08] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, I mean, I really think for, I'm a believer that it's only going to be a cultural changer if leaderships and leaders participate and think it's important.
[00:22:18] Arleen Haeggquist: Like, if you go to a racial equity training or gender equity training and the CEO or the founder or whoever isn't there, or they just have you watch a, , a pre recorded, you know, online video. It shows that they don't take it seriously, and it is exactly that. It's a checkbox that we were required to do, and we're doing it, as opposed to, hey, we want to have a very inclusive work environment.
[00:22:41] Arleen Haeggquist: We want to make sure people feel included in the workplace. We want equity for , all of our employees. And if that's the message you're coming out with, then That's going to make a shift, you know, in society and in our culture. It's through, through leadership.
[00:22:55] Charna Cassell: Well, and you know, immediately when you said, you know, it's about leadership, I unfortunately pictured our Trump years as we approach them again and the permission that that granted.
[00:23:08] Charna Cassell: , but at the same time, because it was so heinous and the shadow was so big. You know, there was this other wave and me too happened and, , you know, but, but at the same time I was, I was reading different news articles and looking at a response to, sexual assault in South Korea versus Italy versus the United States.
[00:23:33] Charna Cassell: And so the, the things that I was, I was reading, there was a situation with one of the actors who is in, , Squid Games. He's like a 79 year old man or something who hugged and kissed one of his co stars and he was sentenced. Like, eight months in prison, two years in parole. Oh. I know. I know, right? I was like, okay, go South Korea.
[00:23:57] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Like, come on. He hugged and kissed her, and it's still, like, not consensual, but compared to in Italy, there was a janitor in a high school who stuck his hand inside one of the female students, teenage students underpants, and the judge threw it out and said it was less than ten So there's been this whole social media response, these videos on, on Instagram, where people are touching themselves.
[00:24:26] Charna Cassell: Like touching their, their bodies for 10 seconds to show how extraordinarily long, you know, it doesn't even matter. Right. , it's absurd. And then we look at, you know, grabbing people by the pussy and we look at a president who is accused of sexually assaulting a 14 year old and, you know, anyways, , So what do you, you know, you're, you're working within the United States, California, you're not working, you're not working in South Korea, right?
[00:24:56] Charna Cassell: So what, what do you see there?
[00:24:59] Arleen Haeggquist: I mean, here's the thing. That's what's so amazing. We have so many laws. I mean, that's across the board. Nobody says this conduct is okay, or it's acceptable, but, and, and if you come forward, you know, there are people that are going to support you and believe you. The problem is, is that there's always a defense, right?
[00:25:26] Arleen Haeggquist: There's always an attack when you do come forward. It's not just like, there's not this accountability. I mean, in every case. The first step is to deny like just deny it ever happened when the denial doesn't work. It's a to tell the woman she wanted it. She consented to it. She was in that situation. , and then thirdly, when that doesn't work, it's just to attack the woman on every aspect, right?
[00:25:48] Arleen Haeggquist: To to for anything that you've done in your life, you know, it's to attack your credibility and who you are. And that's hard, right? It's like, that's a lot to to deal with. But if you can overcome that, which is what, why we're here, right? You develop your team to stand with you. Like you have your people, you know, behind you, , to overcome those defenses, because it happens in every case.
[00:26:10] Arleen Haeggquist: It's not personal towards you. It's just, this is the only way they can defend themselves. They don't just take accountability and recognize that wasn't appropriate. And I'm going to do something about it.
[00:26:19] Charna Cassell: That it's, uh, I can feel my chest and throat. Like, gripping and kind of closing as you describe that, and I know that information and yet imagining all the women that have to go through that and just picturing how, you know, it's, it's a remarkable thing to not have ulcers, to be able to breathe through that as you hold space for, for that experience daily, that's a lot.
[00:26:55] Arleen Haeggquist: It is, but I find it so important and so rewarding.
[00:26:59] Charna Cassell: No
[00:27:00] Charna Cassell: doubt,
[00:27:00] Arleen Haeggquist: you know, for them to have a place where there's a group of people who tells them, I believe you, I hear you, and you don't have to go through this alone. Right. And that's really powerful for them.
[00:27:12] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yeah. I get a, Similar satisfaction when I'm doing, you know, I'm helping recreate new neural pathways in my client's brains.
[00:27:22] Charna Cassell: It doesn't matter, not that it doesn't matter that they didn't have it the first time, like when they were assaulted as children, but getting to do physical practices, somatic practices with them, to be their advocate then, to protect them, like to protect them now, and know that there's something changing in their brains.
[00:27:41] Charna Cassell: that can impact their whole nervous system.
[00:27:43] Arleen Haeggquist: powerful.
[00:27:44] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:27:45] Arleen Haeggquist: That's so powerful.
[00:27:46] Charna Cassell: Someone else is like, Oh my God, that's so, how do you do that? It's exhausting. And, and, and so I, I love that we each, I feel like our, you know, we have our life experiences. I wouldn't wish them on anybody else yet. They give me a very specific set of tools.
[00:28:00] Charna Cassell: And then my path of healing has allowed me to provide a service and facilitate that for other people. And, and that's really what I hear.
[00:28:10] Charna Cassell: Has happened
[00:28:10] Charna Cassell: for you.
[00:28:11] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah.
[00:28:12] Charna Cassell: Yeah. And so just a little bit of like logistical stuff. You know, if, if somebody did have a case, right, there's the statute of limitations in terms of there's, there's child sexual abuse.
[00:28:25] Charna Cassell: There's also, , sexual assault. What are, what are some of the laws around that, that people, that would be useful for people to, to know?
[00:28:35] Arleen Haeggquist: So sometimes people think that the statute of limitations has, has expired, especially if you were abused as a, as a child. And now you're coming forward as an adult.
[00:28:45] Charna Cassell: Well,
[00:28:45] Arleen Haeggquist: it's from the discovery date.
[00:28:47] Arleen Haeggquist: Right. And it's a little, there's a little, some nuances to that, but the point being, if you were abused as a child and you want to come forward as an adult, you most likely can, because there's a recognition that that trauma doesn't resurface or that you might even not even have the memory that that occurred until later, or that you're not ready to come forward.
[00:29:09] Arleen Haeggquist: until you're an adult, after therapy, after working through some of these things. So the statute of limitations isn't going to prevent you from bringing that claim if you want to come forward as an adult. , with respect to women in the workplace, , same thing, the statute of limitations used to be one year, but they've extended it to three here in California.
[00:29:28] Arleen Haeggquist: They're planning to extend it even longer for the same reason. You don't all of a sudden like get assaulted or harassed in the workplace and like, oh, I'm going to file a lawsuit, you know, it's if you're experiencing trauma from that situation. You see a therapist, you work through it and then you're like, Hey, that wasn't right.
[00:29:47] Arleen Haeggquist: And I want to do something about it. So there are, there are statute of limitations, but there, there might be longer than you, than you think, but always consult with a lawyer to find out what your statute of limitations is. So, you know, you don't blow it.
[00:30:00] Charna Cassell: And, and how does that also in terms of, um, uh, date rape, right?
[00:30:05] Charna Cassell: So, so if the person knows that it occurred, , and it doesn't come back to them later. And let's say it was 10 years prior.
[00:30:14] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, that one's harder.
[00:30:16] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:30:16] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. That one's harder. And you might be prevented from bringing that claim. It's based on that discovery date.
[00:30:23] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm.
[00:30:24] Arleen Haeggquist: So, the statute of limitations, it depends on what laws you bring it under, , but you're looking at approximately three years.
[00:30:31] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. How have you been feeling about Harvey Weinstein in the latest?
[00:30:39] Arleen Haeggquist: You know, it's I'm thinking about all the survivors that have to come, you know, they're having a retrial, but having to come tell your story again. That's who I'm thinking about. Like that's the part that's like wrong, you know, like they've already had to testify already.
[00:30:54] Arleen Haeggquist: They already had to give their story. They were already on the stand. They already had to be cross examined. And even though he's going to stay in jail for all of his other crimes, I understand wanting to retry it to not let them get away with it in New York. But yeah, now all of these people have to come forward again.
[00:31:09] Arleen Haeggquist: And the effect on them. That's who I'm thinking about.
[00:31:12] Charna Cassell: Of course. Yeah. It's ridiculous.
[00:31:15] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah.
[00:31:18] Charna Cassell: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm just, right now I'm just thinking about, about Cos, about everything that happened with Cosby. Yeah. How insane.
[00:31:30] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. And how, how many, you know, that's the thing. It took so many women, you know.
[00:31:35] Charna Cassell: 69 or something?
[00:31:37] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. I forget the numbers right now. But how many times it had to occur before one woman, you know, finally steps forward and then that's when all the other ones come forward, because that's when they realize they're not alone.
[00:31:51] Charna Cassell: Right, right.
[00:31:52] Arleen Haeggquist: There's strength in numbers.
[00:31:54] Charna Cassell: I'm, I'm curious about the cases that you've tried and, you know, people in the medical field, as well as in the military. That's, if there are certain, , organizations. Yes. For fields that you see more people coming forward, or less people coming forward?
[00:32:14] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. I think people who have power in positions of power and influence, it happens, I feel like I see it more in those places.
[00:32:26] Arleen Haeggquist: And I think it's because they think they can get away with it, or they haven't. They've gotten away with it for so long. Who's gonna believe the person coming forward because they are who they are.
[00:32:37] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:32:38] Arleen Haeggquist: On the flip side of that that's how the woman feels right like they're not gonna believe me against him.
[00:32:46] Arleen Haeggquist: He has such a high big reputation. He's been in this industry for so long. So many people like him, you know, why are they going to believe that it happened to me. Right. And so one it's it's I feel like that's our specialty is going up against people who think they're above the law. , and so that's where we see it more with respect to doctors.
[00:33:11] Arleen Haeggquist: Sadly, it's really hard to take away their license. Like I think, you know, with each one of our cases against a doctor, we report it to the medical board because I think they should not be licensed and have access to women. You know, patients and employees, , when they commit that kind of conduct, but to get the license taken away is a lot harder than you would think, which is surprising to me is surprising.
[00:33:38] Arleen Haeggquist: Cause it's like, I don't know what you would need to take a license away.
[00:33:45] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Well, you know, I have a lot of nurse and doctor clients. And I think of the medical field as operating like the military,
[00:33:56] Arleen Haeggquist: you know,
[00:33:57] Arleen Haeggquist: there's so much trust. I mean, they are they're really put on such a pedestal.
[00:34:01] Arleen Haeggquist: Right. And so then you have all this power and influence and like people are trusting you. And when you break that, I think there should be consequences to breaking that trust.
[00:34:11] Charna Cassell: Oh, absolutely. Well, absolutely. I mean, you'd think, well, look at families, right?
[00:34:15] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah.
[00:34:15] Charna Cassell: Look how common incest occurs, right? And so, and it's like, those are the people that are ultimately, you're supposed to put all of your trust in and they're supposed to be your protectors.
[00:34:24] Charna Cassell: And so, yeah, um, but I'm, I'm also just thinking about the hierarchy of power that exists. So it's even abuse of nurses by doctors or the system itself, how the system itself doesn't protect. It's not just, it's like patients, but, but the staff, if there's subordinates. I had a woman, , on my podcast, Imagine, , who wrote, who did a documentary, , At Your Cervix, which is about, , assault of patients when they're under, they, at teaching hospitals where cervical exams, not women and men, where pelvic exams, not just cervix, Cervical exams, but anal exams occur without their consent because they're basically just signing, you know, you go in at 6 a.
[00:35:12] Charna Cassell: m. for a procedure for your foot operation and you sign your, the, the waiver, and then you don't know that 150 students are performing an exam on you.
[00:35:23] Arleen Haeggquist: Wow.
[00:35:23] Charna Cassell: And this is not illegal in a lot of states.
[00:35:26] Arleen Haeggquist: Wow.
[00:35:27] Charna Cassell: It's a, it's an incredible documentary. I highly recommend, I highly recommend you, you see it. Wow. Wow.
[00:35:34] Charna Cassell: And so, and then, and then if a, if a student, a resident is uncomfortable with this process and comes forward, they're basically told, you know, you, this doesn't seem like the right fit for you. Like, maybe you shouldn't be here. And, and so there were a couple residents or, um, that were interviewed for the, uh, for the documentary.
[00:35:59] Arleen Haeggquist: Wow. That is, I had no idea.
[00:36:02]
[00:36:02] Charna Cassell: I'll send, I can send you a link.
[00:36:08] Arleen Haeggquist: Okay. Okay. Wow. Like,
[00:36:11] Charna Cassell: yeah, it would be an interesting, I've, I've, I've hosted like a love listening or a watching party with that. And um, the, the conversations are, are pretty interesting afterwards.
[00:36:23] Arleen Haeggquist: I would think that people were shocked, right? Were you shocked when you watched it?
[00:36:27] Charna Cassell: So it's crazy. So years ago I, I worked at, , good vibrations. , so I was a sexuality educator and because, and this was over 20 years ago, , there were a handful of us. A handful of people that were, , teaching models at Stanford, right? So you'd go in and you would be part of the rotation and they would do pelvic, they would do, exams, palpate your ovaries for part of their education.
[00:36:52] Arleen Haeggquist: Wow.
[00:36:53] Charna Cassell: You know, and you're getting paid like 40 bucks or something. , and I considered doing it. And so I, I knew about this and, and one of the, the women who was at this watch party was one of those models, but, but she still didn't even know the degree to that this was happening because she's, this is part of the conscious training, not the unconscious training.
[00:37:15] Charna Cassell: Right, right. , one of the people who made the film was also. one of those trainers, one of the, one of the models who's teaching the students.
[00:37:25] Arleen Haeggquist: Wow.
[00:37:25] Charna Cassell: By using their own bodies.
[00:37:27] Arleen Haeggquist: Wow.
[00:37:27] Charna Cassell: . Yeah.
[00:37:29] Arleen Haeggquist: That, I could never do that.
[00:37:31] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:37:34] Arleen Haeggquist: From my own experience, yeah.
[00:37:35] Charna Cassell: I wonder why.
[00:37:36] Charna Cassell: So post writing this book, , I know that you didn't. You felt guilty for not, , coming out and saying, me too, literally, but what it served its purpose, right?
[00:37:53] Charna Cassell: It, it, it worked you and gave you the courage to then work on this book and come out with this book. So was this a project during, uh, quarantine? Did you write this book during that time, or had you, had you done a lot of the writing, you just didn't come forward with it?
[00:38:10] Arleen Haeggquist: Exactly. I had started, started writing it, not necessarily during COVID, um, it was a little, I guess, yeah, it was.
[00:38:17] Arleen Haeggquist: I started thinking about putting it out there in a book. Yeah, right around that time. Lots more time to think during that period. Um, and then, yeah, I started it in 21. So, yeah, it was, I didn't look at it as a COVID project. It was just time for me to do it. .
[00:38:33] Charna Cassell: well, I, the, the, the way that I think about that period is, is that it was an incubator.
[00:38:39] Charna Cassell: Yeah. You know, that it really was, uh, very, it helped people be very discerning. It helped people establish boundaries because when you take all the things away that are, unless they're absolutely essential for day to day work and living, and then they start to come back in, you really can feel the impact on your body and your psyche.
[00:39:02] Charna Cassell: And we had a lot less tolerance for bullshit on the other side.
[00:39:05] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, very true. And I wasn't, I really just had a lot more time with myself and I wasn't just like running to, you know, events and work, client, all the stuff,
[00:39:17] Arleen Haeggquist: , on a day to day. So a lot more time just with myself and, , More time with just my immediate family, my husband and my daughter, , as opposed to the extended family.
[00:39:25] Arleen Haeggquist: And so created some boundaries there as well. , so yeah, it was, I hadn't looked at it that way. , but yeah, that's, that's probably what caused like, okay, I'm now ready to do this. Yeah. Allowed me to say, I'm going to do this.
[00:39:39] Charna Cassell: And, and that's, so then I wondered also about, , your family's response to the book.
[00:39:45] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. It hasn't been great. It, so I've had, , you know, nieces and nephews that are, have responded, like they're so thankful that I shared the story cause it really gave them perspective of understanding their parents. I'm the youngest of 10 kids. So for me, I didn't want to pass on the generational trauma that I've seen my siblings pass on.
[00:40:06] Arleen Haeggquist: And, , it really helped my nieces and nephews, I think. Just understand their parents a little bit more because it's the stories that nobody has ever told them. And on the flip side, you know, it's been some siblings that have completely stopped talking to me. , because they don't understand why I needed to share the story and why I needed to share the family secrets and, you know, things were fine.
[00:40:29] Arleen Haeggquist: Everything's been fine. , what do you need to talk about this for? So that's been hard, um, , because they're not even giving me an opportunity to explain or why I'm doing it. , But I also recognize and have the empathy for, they didn't have all the tools. I've been doing this for a long time and working on this for a while.
[00:40:49] Arleen Haeggquist: So for them, it's, I'm kind of forcing them to process this information and take it in and accept it, , when they might not have been ready for it themselves. So it's been, it's been an interesting journey as, as the book has come out with the family.
[00:41:05] Charna Cassell: You know, just like you weren't ready when everyone was saying, me too, me too, me too.
[00:41:09] Charna Cassell: We all have our different timelines and, um, you might have planted a seed of courage or, you know, willingness to be aware, but that also may not be that person's path in this lifetime. Right.
[00:41:21] Arleen Haeggquist: Yep.
[00:41:22] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm so glad you're the next generation has you as a resource in your family to help them understand and, and choose a different way.
[00:41:33] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. Yes.
[00:41:35] Charna Cassell: A question that I ask my guests is, you know, how, how would you define, What is that to you?
[00:41:42] Arleen Haeggquist: Oh, what is freedom to me?
[00:41:44] Charna Cassell: Yeah. What is it? Well, what is embodied freedom or sexual freedom or freedom?
[00:41:48] Arleen Haeggquist: I think just feeling good in my own skin, like just feeling like I have a place and I feel good when I walk around as opposed to ashamed of my being and, and apologizing for my existence.
[00:42:02] Arleen Haeggquist: I don't feel that way anymore. Like I like being me and I like being. You know, around and I feel comfortable when I'm talking to people, whoever they might be, but to me, that's freedom is just being able to be myself and love myself. , And being proud of getting to this point, despite everything that has happened.
[00:42:21] Charna Cassell: Yeah. So one of the things that you talked about that seemed like a turning point for you, or, you know, there are so many of them, but one of them that was really important , was a gratitude practice. And initially there's a lot of resistance to it.
[00:42:36] Charna Cassell: And I, what I like to offer. At the end of every episode is, is some kind of practice or exercise that has made a difference in, you know, like my, my host life or in my life that my listeners can then choose to do.
[00:42:53] Charna Cassell: , I know that Dr. Joe Dispenza meditation practices have also been something that have made a huge difference for you and your perspective and feeling more empowered around what's happening in your body. So I'm curious if there's anything you want to share about the role of practice in your life, and then also actually guide us in a five minute exercise.
[00:43:14] Arleen Haeggquist: Sure, I don't know if I can guide a five minute exercise. Yeah, no worries, no worries. But practice is really important. It's just, you know, we, the thoughts start spiraling in your head and you start going down, you know, places that you don't want to go. For me, it was a lot of negative self talk, right? Like telling myself, , I was a failure.
[00:43:35] Arleen Haeggquist: I wasn't going to make it. I was ugly. I was stupid. Nobody was gonna, you know, listen to me. There were so many other better lawyers out there. I mean, every horrible thing that if somebody was saying that, To you, I would punch them in the face, but I was okay telling myself all of those horrible things.
[00:43:56] Arleen Haeggquist: The gratitude practice was really transformative because it just, you started practicing focusing on something else besides the negative self talk and like telling yourself how wonderful, all these wonderful things you had in your life that if you started focusing on that, you could it. You could see it differently.
[00:44:19] Arleen Haeggquist: You could change your vocabulary., and so I started with every morning, three things. And sometimes it seems really stupid, you know, I'm really thankful for the, you know, the sun outside. I'm really thankful for the warm bed. I'm really thankful for a hot shower. And it seemed silly when you started writing it down because it's like, it was like, well, that's so obvious.
[00:44:41] Arleen Haeggquist: But it provides a shift because now you're focusing on all these things and you realize you are surrounded by all this love and warmth, , when you, that, of people that love you, when you, and you're the only one creating this, you know, these issues for yourself. , With respect to the, the meditations, I mean, that again was just powerful because it was like the light bulb went out.
[00:45:13] Arleen Haeggquist: Like if I change my thoughts, I can change my whole life. And that kind of goes back to what we were talking about with the gratitude. It's like, just change the way you're thinking and you can experience the world in a completely different way. But that requires practice because all of those thoughts.
[00:45:29] Arleen Haeggquist: you've had in your life for a long time. And so practicing allows you to change it on a daily basis. So I don't know if I have anything to lead people into, , because for me, it has to be like quiet,, But that's really the practice and that's why Joe dispenses meditations allowed me to practice changing my thoughts.
[00:45:53] Arleen Haeggquist: It shifted my energy to a different way. We're now. I don't have that negative self talk, or if I do, I come back to the tools that I know I have to, to change it.
[00:46:06] Charna Cassell: I, um, I could actually mention a, a practice, so very similar kind of practice. And this came from brother Ishmael Tete, who was a teacher of mine. He's a mystic from Ghana, like third generation mystic
[00:46:24] Charna Cassell: and
[00:46:25] Charna Cassell: really remarkable man. Um, And so the practices and I, and I tweak it and I change it and it's, it's very much, it's in the same vein, you know, the, uh, the notion is if the habit has been looking for all the ways that you're bad or looking for all the way, all the things that don't work, how can I start to shift my belief and start to see how I am, how I am good, right.
[00:46:53] Charna Cassell: Or how my environment nourishes me. And so his practice. was 10 things in the morning. , you write down a list of 10 ways, like kind of a notions of your, of your goodness, right? Almost like gratitude for yourself, like things that you appreciate about how you are, right? Or things that you've done. In the morning, you wake up and you reflect on your previous week and you choose 10 ways that you have shown up in a way that feels good to you.
[00:47:29] Charna Cassell: That that show you your own goodness and at the end of each day, you reflect on 10 things from that day.
[00:47:38] Arleen Haeggquist: I love it.
[00:47:39] Charna Cassell: Right? Yeah. And they could be tiny. They could be little. They could be little thing.
[00:47:44] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah. When I'm telling clients, you know, like, how do you, how do you get your power back? Right? This situation or this experience, , took a piece of your power back, but we're, it's innately in you, you know, how do you start to get it back?
[00:47:55] Arleen Haeggquist: And something similar that I tell them is like, take inventory of everything you've done. Right? That has been very powerful. Like you being right here in this space right now is very powerful. If you had a birth, you gave birth to a child, that's very powerful. You form this beautiful relationship with your partner, your spouse.
[00:48:12] Arleen Haeggquist: That's very powerful. You live in San Diego and just taking inventory of all these things that have already been powerful in your life. will allow you to see
[00:48:24] Charna Cassell: that
[00:48:24] Arleen Haeggquist: there's still a lot of power to be had and that it's been there the whole time. So anyways, I think very similar, similar type practice.
[00:48:32] Charna Cassell: Well, and, and the reality is that, you know, it, the reason there are so many similar practices is because they work.
[00:48:39] Arleen Haeggquist: That is very true. Yeah.
[00:48:41] Charna Cassell: You know, he taught a practice I was on a retreat with him and there was a practice that we did that's very similar to the Ohoponopono practice using the same phrases like, I'm sorry, please forgive, you know, I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. Like these phrases are universally powerful words and they've come from totally different parts of like one is in Hawaii and one is in Africa.
[00:49:07] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Right. That came to them. Right. Um, And so there's a reason. And, and you don't have to invent the wheel, right? You can just tweak, you can tweak it a little too. So I love that, right? So that you're instead of replacing goodness, because so much of what happens with child abuse or assault or is, is believing in our badness.
[00:49:30] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah, that you're bad. It happened to you because you're bad.
[00:49:33] Charna Cassell: Exactly.
[00:49:34] Arleen Haeggquist: Yeah.
[00:49:35] Charna Cassell: You caused it. Your beingness caused it in some way. So then starting to reframe and see your own goodness and the goodness that is possible, um, that you can keep generating and that you've already generated as you pointed out. And I love it like going, okay, it could be goodness.
[00:49:52] Charna Cassell: It could be power and so much. There can be. Going back to the thing that you said, which is I was afraid of my own anger because of I didn't want to be like my father. Well, he was also powerful. He used power over versus power with or power to support. Right. And so then how do you, as a woman who has been subject to the abuse of power, how do you embrace being powerful?
[00:50:15] Charna Cassell: And I think that's a huge part of, you know, the post trauma. Process. Yeah, claiming that.
[00:50:23] Arleen Haeggquist: Exactly.
[00:50:23] Charna Cassell: Yeah.
[00:50:24] Charna Cassell: Is,
[00:50:25] Charna Cassell: is there anything else that you would like to share with the, with the listeners beyond how they can find you reach you find out more about you.
[00:50:34] Arleen Haeggquist: I always tell people to. to take action now, right? If you don't have a practice, start a practice.
[00:50:40] Arleen Haeggquist: If you haven't shared your story, put it in a journal, like don't wait because I just think life is so short and so precious. And the relationships you have are so precious that you want to live your best self. And that really has to start somewhere. And it has to, you know, you just have to take one little step and then you'll start just, you know, Beating off of it, right?
[00:51:02] Arleen Haeggquist: It's like a high you keep wanting to chase cause you keep, you know, evolving and feeling better as you go through the process.
[00:51:09] Charna Cassell: So true. Oh, so much for your time.
[00:51:13] Arleen Haeggquist: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a great conversation.
[00:51:17] Charna Cassell: I love knowing that you're out there and knowing that you're a resource.
[00:51:20] Charna Cassell: So
[00:51:21] Arleen Haeggquist: thank you.
[00:51:22] Charna Cassell: Thank you for joining us. If you found this information useful, please like, rate, review and share it with people that you think it would benefit. , if you want to stay connected to me, you can find us at laid open podcast, L A I D P O D C A S T. , on , Instagram, and Facebook. And you can also, , find me on my website, info at passionate life.
[00:51:49] Charna Cassell: If you want to send me an email or passionate life. org and charna cassell. com. If you want to sign up for my newsletter, you hear about courses I'm offering and all the latest and read my blog. This has been Laid Open Podcast with your host Charna Cassell. Until next time, may this podcast connect you to new resources for your own healing.
[00:52:12] Charna Cassell: Lots of love.
