Show Notes
Charna Cassell: [00:00:00] Welcome back to LaidOPEN Podcast. I'm your host, Charna Cassell and today's guest is really interesting to me because he's come into the wellness world through an unusual set of circumstances and you'll get to hear more about that in the interview itself. But what I will say. Is he's the author of a book that creates a system to help people in relationships, , with their communication and getting clear on their priorities, and it feels so useful because people just are desperate for, , a formula.
And a way to fix things because they're, they're partnered with people that they love desperately. And it's not just for partners. It could be about family members or even talking to your children. The stakes are high and you care a lot and you just wanna figure out how to make it work. And so if there's a willingness.
, Then this book is a useful tool for you, you know, and, and [00:01:00] it'll also help you get really clear, like if there isn't a willingness, you'll get more clarity sooner than later.
My guest today, Nick Brancato. He's a relationship systems architect, and the author of the book Prioritize Us. It's a groundbreaking framework that helps couples align through clarity, not conflict. He's helping to redefine what modern love looks like. One simple, powerful test at a time.
Welcome, Nick.
[00:02:00]
Nick Brancato: Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to talk with you today
Charna Cassell: I loved when I found out how you came to personal development coaching. I. I thought it was really fascinating and I would, I would love for our listeners to, a, get a little download about how you started this.
Nick Brancato: Sure. So my start in personal development, coaching and couples coaching and relationship coaching actually began in a very backwards way.
I used to, , be a professional poker player and I was the lead instructor for the World Poker Tour Bootcamp, and I taught high stakes decision making under pressure. And mindset management. And so when you're a poker player and you're playing poker tournaments, it's very long days, 10 to 14 hour days, several days in a row, [00:03:00] sometimes as long as a week.
And so if you have distractions away from the table, it really impacts you. Your play at the table. You have to have a very clear mind to make good decisions consistently. Over time, there's hundreds of decisions you have to make. In a day, thousands probably. And so if you're distracted, it's very hard to focus.
And so I was coaching a lot of poker players to play these long tournaments. And what I discovered was that was distractions away from the table that were hurting them and the mental side of the game more than the strategic side of the game. And the biggest thing impacting them was their primary relationships.
So in addition to doing the mindset coaching with them. I was also doing, , a little bit of mindset coaching with their partners to help them understand the frame of what it's like for their partner to be playing at the table. Mm. , for all these days. So when they're not able to text or not able to talk on a break or at dinner or something, it's not [00:04:00] neglect, it's extreme focus, hyper focus that's necessary to play at this high professional, competitive level.
Mm-hmm. And so through working with their partners, I realized that there was a lot of conflicts going on that were mostly miscommunications. And so working on communication issues became, a, a big focus. And doing couples coaching and helping them connect and work with them away from the table, help them at the table.
Mm-hmm. Which was the biggest. Revelation is how much, and this applies to anyone's career, doesn't, they don't have to be a professional poker player, of course, right? Any job you're focused, when you're, when you're at your work, you're very focused and it can seem like neglect to a partner when often it's just, , a passion for their work or a need for attentiveness to function at their job.
Charna Cassell: Right, [00:05:00] right. Well, and it's, you know, your, your, your book is titled Prioritize Us and a Reframe. So I'm a, you know, I'm a a, a sex therapist, a trauma therapist. And so I sit with people all day and often the feeling is like, I am, I wanna be a priority. I'm not a priority. Like your work is a priority. This other thing is, you know, has your attention.
Um, and there's the desire to have overlapping. Priorities on, on both sides. And they may even, in some odd way, have the same priority, but it's just like a subset.
Nick Brancato: Yes.
Charna Cassell: Right. , but this notion, I, I love picturing that. It's like, you know, here's this person sitting at home making up a whole story. Here's this other person just trying to like, have, almost like they're, they're a monk in a meditation, right?
That's what I was picturing. Like a 10 hour, you know, if you're at a meditation retreat, that's what you're doing and it's like, okay, you're [00:06:00] just focusing your whole consciousness on one thing and it doesn't mean you don't love the people outside your consciousness during that frame of time.
Nick Brancato: Absolutely.
You super nailed it. It's so zen and being in the zone or being in flow. Mm-hmm. Or there's all kinds of different ways to describe it, but you really nailed it. It's like when you're, you almost have to be in a meditative state where you're letting all the outside world fade away, and it's not because you don't love someone.
Mm-hmm. Or because you don't care about them or because they're not a priority. It's because that's the level it takes to achieve what your goal is.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. My neighbor has a new puppy and, well, the, the, the son is a, a 10-year-old boy and, he has a DHD and so trying to teach, so a puppy, I.
It's like in its nature, tick, tick, tick, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, you know? And uh, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna try to teach this kid some, some [00:07:00] training. Training the kid to train the dog. And as we were walking, I was like, okay, so if you really keep your mind really clear and focused, it's more likely this little guy's gonna listen to you.
So I was like, so let's stop, let's breathe into our bellies. Right. Let's really breathe. Let's try to get really calm and then ask the puppy to do the thing. Like, here's the tree.
Nick Brancato: I love that. The breath work incorporation too, is excellent.
Charna Cassell: Well, it's like, let's all bring it down.
Nick Brancato: Bring a calm down. Yeah,
Charna Cassell: yeah, yeah.
I'm also so interested 'cause there's, you know that, especially as a poker player. So much communication, right? Like only 30% is verbal and the rest is nonverbal. And so you must be a master also at Somatic Tell what I call somatic tells, right?
Nick Brancato: Yes.
There're definitely tells. Keeping a poker face is a big part of the game and not giving off the behavioral information while [00:08:00] you're playing, as well as picking up the behavioral information and the patterns.
So much of it's pattern recognition. Mm-hmm. So like what someone's baseline. And then when are they deviating from it in a way that, , can be correlated with an action that they're taking? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you're looking at them all the time, and then when you're in a hand with them, you're particularly focused on how they're deviating from their baseline.
Charna Cassell: Well, and then how does that. Then show up in, in people's personal relationships, because are they then in the habit? If you're training yourself to have a poker face for 10 hours a day, then you come home. I mean, I, this is one of the things I work with, with clients. It's like if you're, if you've been training to do something, it's hard to take your police chief cap off.
Or if you're a, a, a sex worker and you're, and you're like, you know, dissociated, it's hard to be present with a partner if you've trained yourself to be dissociated or whatever the habit is. [00:09:00] So how do they, when they come home, it's not have a poker face and actually be transparent and relational.
Nick Brancato: It's a big problem actually.
So, so what we try to do is, , something grounding mm-hmm. That is very human to, to reconnect and get out of the competitive. Poker face space. Mm-hmm. So, for example, like a hot beverage ritual when you get home. Mm-hmm. Or a glass of wine or mm-hmm. Whatever the case may be. A, a coffee or a tea is a really nice way to connect and do no devices.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm.
Nick Brancato: And no talking about other people.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm.
Nick Brancato: Only yourself
and each other.
Charna Cassell: Nice. Yeah. I have people do transitionary practices, whether it's like before they step in. Like, like mini. And you also talk about, I, I call them micro practices. And you have like, yes. You know, micro, I can't remember [00:10:00] what you call them.
Micro rituals. Micro rituals. , And so I love that, you know, it's like, how do you, how do you take one little action to get into the present moment together and kind of shake off, you know, the, the day.
Nick Brancato: Yeah. Shaking it off and mm-hmm. Refreshing is so necessary. Uh, even simple things like, uh, cold water on your wrists or on your face, on the back of your neck.
Something to bring you back to your sort of sensoral place, your baseline out of the cerebral, out of the. Now giving off behavioral information and into the now wanting to give off more information because you're wanting to connect. So, and communication happens on so many levels. Like you said, only 30% is verbal.
So your demeanor and how open you are in your behaviors, the things that you're trying not to do at the poker table are the things you wanna be doing in your relationship. So [00:11:00] making that visible and talking about it explicitly. Is the key because so many people don't realize that they're guarded at all.
Charna Cassell: Right. Well, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, it's so fascinating. I, I love the fact that you were a professional poker player. , I used to play poker with my grandpa
Nick Brancato: Oh. For
Charna Cassell: coffee nips and pennies. And then we would take our wins and we would bet on who was gonna win on like, , people's court.
Nick Brancato: How fun. Prop betting.
That's awesome.
Charna Cassell: But then it also has me think about the poker player who goes home and they can't stop reading their partner's, tells like a level of vigilance in their system or does it, does it not occur? But that's what I would imagine would happen is like they have the habit of like, right.
It,
Nick Brancato: it occurs for sure. You're, you're so right on point. And. One of the things that happens when you're playing poker is you're trying to understand [00:12:00] what your opponents have and what their motives are, what they're doing and why. . And so you're fill, you have to fill in a range of, of potential outcomes or hands that they could have.
And in relationships, what people have a tendency to do is they make up these narratives.
Charna Cassell: Yes.
Nick Brancato: And so when you're doing that as part of your career and trying to. Uncover the story. You think that maybe you can do that in your partner, but you can't because unless you ask them questions and adopt a learning stance and get curious, it's gonna be difficult to know.
So they need something like the Prioritize Us test to bring them back to paying attention to what their partner says instead of the way their partner acts.
Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yeah, so, so tell us some about the Prioritize Us test.
Nick Brancato: Sure. So the Prioritize Us Test is a very quick test that takes five or 10 minutes, and basically you rank 10 Core Life Priorities 1 through 10.
That's all you have to do is just. [00:13:00] Say your top priorities are one your least important priority, A 10. Rank them one through 10, and it's things like career, communication, entertainment, everything to spirituality, sex. So 10 Core Life Priorities. You rank them individually without your partner seeing, and then your partner does the same.
And then basically you compare your results and we're gonna get a total different score, which is the difference between any two priorities. So if I rank my career as a one and you rank it as a four, the difference between a one and a four is a three. So we do that for all 10 priorities, and we get a score between 0 and 50.
Zero is perfectly aligned. We're almost the same person. It never really happens. It's like one in a trillion. And , 50 is, we're complete opposites. We view the world from different perspectives, and our decision making likely occurs in different directions. So we're as misaligned as possible. Somewhere in the middle, in the twenties, you start to get into like a complimentary range.
Mm-hmm. [00:14:00] Where we both have gaps in our knowledge, but they sort of overlap and we help each other. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the lower the score, the more aligned you are. It's sort of like a relationship, , a credit score for your relationship. So it moves you beyond vague emotions to sort of an objective system.
That's based on truth because you both answered your priorities honestly. And now we've moved to an a data-driven system where it's objective, where we can actually evaluate where are we aligned, where are we misaligned, where are conflicts likely to occur?
Charna Cassell: Yeah. You know, it's, um, what's so interesting, right?
It's there in our relationships, it's the area of our life where our emotions are the highest. And, you know, our personal, like our family or our lovers, and. People just want, they wanna know, you know, they want, it's like, so research, like Gottman, for instance, is very, is very popular. It's like that people want to [00:15:00] have a system and to know that something's gonna work.
So what you've done is you've created a system that, you know, and there are things that I, that we'll get into that we'll talk about, about, like, here's the, the challenge of reality when you take, even with a, a system. But it's, uh, so what have you seen regarding how useful, 'cause you've used this and you've applied it to a, a pretty big pool of, uh, participants, right?
You,
Nick Brancato: Absolutely, yes.
As many people as I could find. All the couples that I work with for sure. And then the couples that I know. And, individuals as well, because doing a self-assessment is absolutely critical. So even if you're not in a current relationship, taking the prioritized US test and ranking your priorities, it is so, , revealing yes to yourself, and it really makes you answer some difficult questions about how you're allocating your time and your resources.
Mm-hmm. And so I applied this [00:16:00] test to as many in my coaching practice and found that couples were identifying hidden misalignments all over the place, and especially unspoken priorities. Yeah, so things like sex and spirituality. I found that even couples sometimes together for decades had not discussed it very thoroughly.
Mm-hmm. You know, maybe they talked about it in the beginning of their relationship, and they sort of lose touch with certain things like that because it's very private. Hmm. And actually one couple that I was working with recently, they had a very big difference in how they scored their sex. So one person put it as a 3 and another person put it as a 10.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But they both rank spirituality as one. Hmm. And so when people have big differences, I encourage them to look at their strengths first. Where are you aligned? Examine that. Then, and then dive into the, start with your strengths. Start with your pillars of your relationship. Why are we aligned [00:17:00] here?
Yeah. Why is this a priority to you? And then look at the other things. So with them, even though they were misaligned with sex, they were so aligned with spirituality. So I asked them how much time did they spend on spirituality individually a week? And then how much time did they spend together? And they were spending almost no time together.
And they were spending less than an hour a week each. Now that's very little for their, for being their top priority. Some people might spend tens of hours on their top priority often. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So what's funny is that they actually met, in a spiritual place. Mm-hmm. And that was what brought them together.
So when we looked at, when we examined their relationship, what we found was that if they began spending time together spiritually, yes. So we created micro rituals, little habits each day that they can do in the morning, and then once a week, something for a couple hours. Mm-hmm. And so once they began connecting spiritually again, all of a sudden.[00:18:00]
Sex starts to move up in a priority because they're connecting and, and sex is a form of communication, of course. Right? And so by communicating more around their core beliefs and spending time together in the most meaningful way to both of them,
Charna Cassell: yes,
Nick Brancato: it re reignites the spark. They remember why they love each other, or why they're, why they're physically connected.
Maybe they never forget why they love each other, but it's easy to sort of get into autopilot mode.
Charna Cassell: Right, right. Well, and it's also, it's easy to, with lots of hurts over the years to not remember who the other person really is. Right. You see them through a veil of hurts or disappointments. Yes. Or betrayals or all the things you know? Or you're so like one thing that I often see, .
You know, people come to me when this is the, this is their issue often, right? Couples will come when there's a big disparity in prioritizing or a difference in [00:19:00] desire levels. Right?
Nick Brancato: Right.
Charna Cassell: And so one partner might be so focused on family, so it's like they may, maybe they all care about relationship, but it's about the kids, right?
The focus is on the kids. And so then there's a, a massive difference. , With focus on for the couple, , or because a lot, a lot of people come to me also with trauma when that either has been repressed and suddenly comes up Right before that was conscious or before it was, , a priority to focus on safety and health.
Like mental health, sex may have been. A more commonplace experience, or it may have been more of a priority, but then once sexual trauma or something or other kinds of trauma are on the table, there's not the same degree of safety. , And it just falls in ranking, right.
Nick Brancato: That makes total sense. , Grief is also a big one that I've seen
Nick Brancato: [00:20:00] drastically, , reduces desire, , while you're processing something traumatic, like you said losing someone especially, or being injured in some way, losing a piece of yourself. Mm-hmm. Or, or mental health challenge. , Defining what each priority means to you is very important because it makes sure that a shared language is present.
Right. So just by looking at each priority, even when we have similar priorities, how do we view career? Mm-hmm. How do we view what's entertainment to you? What's entertainment to me, you know, is career, the things we're doing at home too, or just when we're at work? Mm-hmm. What does that look like? So understanding what each vocabulary word even means to the other person really sheds a lot of light onto their thinking and gives you a shared context to move forward with the shared language.
And this test is great for other relationships too. You can substitute sex for play or [00:21:00] sports if you're doing it with your kids or school. And so understanding anyone's priorities is so helpful.
Charna Cassell: Well, and then you also, , have, and I do this similarly, but I do it, I call it like the, you know, the a, a pie, I do a pie chart with people's energy.
It's like, where are you actually investing your energy in present time? And what's your ideal, ideal pie? Right? And people will end up seeing the disparity between what they ideally want and what they. Um, what they're actually doing and they're like, oh my God, I'm a friend. I'm a friend hoarder, and it takes up all my life force.
And why do I collect friends when I really need to be putting attention towards my family? Or, you know?
Nick Brancato: Wow. Yes, so true.
Charna Cassell: So even,
even just the subtle, like the different kinds of relationships, how, how a relationship with a parent might be taking all the energy from. Your current, you know, family structure that really is, is, slowly dying in needing your attention or, or vice [00:22:00] versa.
, But one of the things that you, you talk about that I think is important to just kind of list out is there are 10 core ways that you divide. What are the, what are those 10 priorities?
Nick Brancato: Sure. So, uh, the 10 Core Life Priorities are career, communication, entertainment, finances, growth, health. Relationships, safety, sex, and spirituality.
And if you just write those 10 things down and rank them one through 10 and have your partner do the same mm-hmm. And you compare the results, it's gonna be so eye-opening. And then if you take those 10 priorities after you rank them, and like you said, I. Look at how you allocate your resources. How do you spend your time?
For example, how many hours a week do I spend on each priority? Mm-hmm. And like you said, it's very eye-opening. Often people rank entertainment in their bottom three, but then they might be spending like 20, 30 hours a week passively consuming content or scrolling or [00:23:00] swiping that they're not learning from.
That they're not even necessarily enjoying. It might not even be providing the high entertainment value, like the quality and satisfaction might be very low for the time allotment.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So the, so really what you're doing, and this is very important, it's, it's like how do you align your intentions, your desires, and your actions, you know, um, because with your, with your, be.
With your behavior. So here you are and you've wasted three hours. You could have watched a movie, which instead of scrolling, like that's upping your quality of entertainment. Or you could have played a game, like done something interactive with your person if you also value relationships and you want, you know, to build more connection.
Nick Brancato: Absolutely. Honesty with yourself is the key. And what you just said was so critical. My goal for myself or for my relationship, or with anyone that I coach, is [00:24:00] for your actions to be in alignment with your intentions. And that was true at poker too. The idea is you, whatever your intention is, that's how you wanna play out the hand.
You don't want the hand to go some wishy-washy way. That isn't how you would intend for it to go away from the table. When analyzing your strategies and tactics. And so we want our actions to be in aligned with our intentions, and when we do a little bit of an audit of our time against our priorities, we realize, oh wow, my intention is for career to be my second highest priority, but I'm only spending 45 hours a week on it, which is 40 are mandatory.
So how much am I really focused on my career for it to be a high priority? Or if my relationships are a high priority, how much time am I spending on them? Mm-hmm. You know? And then break it down across your different relationship types, especially if you have a family. How much am I spending on my partner, my romantic relationship?
How much time am I spending on on my kids? Maybe on each kid? Because often [00:25:00] there's very big disparities amongst, yeah. Allocation of resources between children.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That, that brings up, , you know, if there's a child who's really struggling with their mental health or with addiction or, , particular needs, , you know, that's, that's where the focus goes.
Then, you know, often the other sibling is the person who ends up in my office, right? They're trying to like learn how to even articulate having needs because they were so used to being the perfect kid who wasn't problematic because their sibling had such big needs, and it's like, how do I even know what I need?
Nick Brancato: Fascinating.
Charna Cassell: Well, and, and so for you, , I know part of your story regarding how you, you know, you were, you, you had a partner who, who's still your partner?
Nick Brancato: Yes, my wife now.
Charna Cassell: Yeah. Do you wanna share some of your story regarding [00:26:00] Sure. , Your challenges and, and how you approach them? Because one of the things that I really love about your story is that a crisis can divide a couple or a family and that somehow it strengthened your relationship.
Nick Brancato: Yes, absolutely. So prioritize us. The book was born from a, a really chaotic, deeply personal challenging time where my now wife was experiencing serious mental health issues. , Tremendous paranoia. , So much to the point where she thought her food was tainted all the time, whether she cooked it herself or if I made it, or if it was delivered or if we went out.
So much so she lost like a third of her body weight. , She was hearing voices eventually, but the causes were unclear. , Everything is fine now. She was eventually, , diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. Hmm. And she's, she's doing great. Now she's thriving, but it was a terrible time. It [00:27:00] lasted for years.
So many doctors, so many unanswered questions. And during this severe situation, our relationship actually improved. Mm-hmm. Our communication improved. And the reason was because. Health and safety became our top priorities. Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden, things like career and other relationships fell to the wayside.
And our petty arguments and disagreements weren't important anymore in the same way for the first time we were aligned. Mm-hmm. And even though we had opposite communication styles and often perspectives, we were going to the same, we were going to the same end goal. Yeah, and we were finally like using the same GPS before it was like we had Apple and Google and you're going to the same place, but it's not gonna be the same route.
Charna Cassell: And
that's such a good ex.
It's a good analogy because if you've ever entered like Google and Waze and then you have the two things that turn here, no turn here.
Nick Brancato: Exactly. [00:28:00] And so aligning your priorities is like having the same GPS system. So. We had this aha moment where we said, now that our priorities align, what if we look at the other priorities in our life?
Charna Cassell: Yeah.
Nick Brancato: So we began looking at all the major life areas, and I do wanna distinguish between like values and priorities. Yeah. Priorities, answer the question, what's important to me now? Whereas values are like stable belief systems that change gradually or sometimes not even much. Unless something traumatic happens or dramatic happens, , once you're an adult. You might have a value that honesty is important to you, that you rarely lie or don't lie, or try not to lie. You might have a value that children are important to you, that you wanna have children, but your priorities change day to day, month to month. So we identified all of life priorities we could and boiled it down to 10.
And what we discovered was that our surface level issues sort of. [00:29:00] Disappeared because our priorities were aligned for the first time during this, uh, chaotic, scary situation. I really thought I was gonna lose her for a while. And so we also were able to really appreciate the moments. And what I learned was that we were often in different realities.
Charna Cassell: Mm.
Nick Brancato: So,
Charna Cassell: very much so in that.
Nick Brancato: Very much so. So finding the shared points of grounding. Was so critical. So the things that I would coach people to do when they're coming out of a poker tournament to sort of reacclimate, like we discussed earlier, just having a hot beverage, things like that. We ritualized as much as we could in our relationship around very human things.
Things that are always present no matter what reality you're in. Like you have to drink water, you have to, you have to, you have to eat something. You eating something warm is gonna be comforting. We built, , routines and rituals. You know, going for a walk [00:30:00] exercise is always good for you. So like, no matter what reality we're in, we can still hold hands on a walk, even if it's a five minute walk.
We can still enjoy a hot beverage in the morning together. We can still, uh, maybe potentially go out to eat a meal together and things like that. So we cannot focus on devices. We can eliminate distractions to the best of our abilities no matter what. Our reality is, and so our goal is to have as much overlap.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm.
Nick Brancato: And as much of a shared reality as possible.
Charna Cassell: So what it has me think of, , you know, at this point in my life and my clients' age, uh, there is a lot of, , dealing with parents who have dementia or Alzheimer's, right? So there's mental illness, but there's also, , cognitive decline. Having a different, you know, different sense of reality or not being able to hold [00:31:00] onto priorities or values even because from moment to moment, how, how conscious are you of what's happening?
Nick Brancato: So true. Right. My father actually had, , Alzheimer's. Mm-hmm. And so I, I went with him to doctors for years and I saw him like lose memories. Yeah. Lose values, even, , certainly not be able to maintain priorities in the same way, but there were always these things that we could connect on. One of them was having coffee.
He loved to have coffee. Mm-hmm. He also smoked, even though he wasn't supposed to, but he could enjoy a cigar. Yeah. , And we could like sit on the porch and like, just sort of enjoy the moment of him enjoying a cigar. Mm-hmm. And. Talk about what's outside, you know, nature, look at the beautiful tree, look at the bird, and just connect on a really human level, even though we weren't able to connect with the shared context of our past anymore.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm. [00:32:00] Mm-hmm. And being in the present, it sounds like, being in the present moment, right? Like even if that moment is fleeting, like. Catching that present moment was, is a valuable, and that, you know, it's like presence, bringing our presence into , our, not only our re external relationships, but our relationship to ourself.
Nick Brancato: Yes. So much with our relationship to ourselves. Getting to ourselves, taking a little time. I would encourage little rituals with yourself too. Like how often do you take time? To actually enjoy a hot beverage alone or a cold glass of water or whatever. Whatever you enjoy. How often do you do it alone without being on your phone, without listening to music, without having the TV on?
How often do you just enjoy a moment with yourself and get a clear head? Mm-hmm. And ground yourself and breathe.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm. And what are those, what are some of the things like even starting with your poker players? So there's your, there's [00:33:00] like couples counseling or coaching, but then also just even preparing someone to be able to be that focused.
What are some of the physical practices? That you had people do.
Nick Brancato: It's a great question. So breathing is incredibly important and breathing in a way that you're comfortable with publicly. Mm-hmm. And a way that you can maintain under stress. So breath work is actually important. Mm-hmm. And, , it's all about what you consume too.
So the content, if you're. What do you listen to? What do you watch? Are you watching uplifting content? Are you watching violent content? Are you watching depressing content? What do you listen to? Are you listening to music that empowers you, that makes you feel like you're gonna perform at your best? Are you listening to calming music before you're about to play?
Are you listening to music that's angry or that puts you into the wrong place? What do you eat? 'cause just like you are what you [00:34:00] eat, you are what you consume. And I think. People don't take into account their content anywhere nearly enough. Like how often are you laughing a day? Do you watch any comedy?
Do you watch standup comedy? Do you watch sitcoms? What do you do to infuse laughter into your life? Because. If you can get yourself to a place of laughter, then you can get yourself to a place of calm. You can breathe easier. It helps your brain chemistry, it releases all kinds of great chemicals.
Mm-hmm. As you know, and visualization is also critical, so. In addition to breath work, picturing yourself at the table, imagining yourself betting, imagining yourself reading your opponents. You know, imagine yourself being in a, a quiet space of zen where you're able to pick up on all the behavioral information and the patterns and the play, and able to make your best decisions.
You know, Olympic athletes yes, use visualization to picture themselves running routes [00:35:00] and swimming and, . Even, , when they're doing, , the, the ski bob mm-hmm. You know, they, they do the route and then they, they do as much visualization as they do actual practicing because you can actually improve in your head.
Mm-hmm. In the same way you can by practicing physically. So any kind of breath work is critical, but breathing through your nose, in and out in a calm way where you don't have to have your mouth open. So you're at the poker table and you're not. You're breathing very steadily and consistently, , whatever that looks like for you.
Some people breathe a little more rapidly and some people breathe a little more slowly, but we're figuring out what your baseline is and what's maintainable. Even under stress, consistency is the key at the poker table, so you can't just hyperventilate sometimes. You can't just sigh. Yeah. You can't be like, huh, I've got a big decision here.
What should I do?
Charna Cassell: Golly gee, [00:36:00] this hand is stressful. That's hysterical. Yeah. So, , going back to, , to your, your wife, . Thinking about a time where two people are in a a crisis situation. Okay, so in that situation, what it took for you to even realize and be able to like get to the same priorities was first your willingness and your flexibility.
Right. You had to be willing to put career on the back burner and you also had to have enough resources to do that. Right. That's, that's also the hard part.
Nick Brancato: That is the hard part. , Fortunately I was able to have resources in place so that I could step away Yeah. From playing and from teaching and, and she could do the same and we could really focus mm-hmm.
On health. , and it really took that because it was like a 24-7 job.
Charna Cassell: Yeah.
Yeah, just
Nick Brancato: to figure out our own, to advocate for our own [00:37:00] mental health.
Charna Cassell: Right? So you were, I mean, so first you were advocating for her. Of course, you're part of this couple bubble, right? And so you're advocating for the relationship and you also have to be willing for that period of time to go like, whatever my particular needs are, I'm gonna put those on hold to prioritize these things.
Nick Brancato: Yes, and it can be tricky because putting your own safety or health on hold, you have to be very careful because once you, as soon as you prioritize someone else, now you're running this risky game of like when you're on a plane and they go through the safety announcement and they say, when the masks come down, you put your on first, before you assist someone else, before you assist the child, your mask always has to go on first.
So with crucial things like nutrition. And health, you really have to make sure that those stay a high priority for you. Yeah. Even as you're caring for [00:38:00] someone else, which was very difficult for me and I didn't do a great job Right. Of that. , Now I know better.
Charna Cassell: Yeah.
Nick Brancato: , So it's something to learn from for sure.
But even if you're caring for someone or they're a high priority, even a higher priority than your needs at the moment because it's so intense. You have to find ways to take time to yourself, even if it's just a couple minutes to breathe. You know, when you're coming in and out of rooms. Set your intention.
Take some deep breaths and realign with yourself because it's so easy to lose yourself in the chaos.
Charna Cassell: And the other piece that is also tricky is, is you know, I'm so glad, first of all that your wife is doing better. Um, and there are some people, like, let's say you have a partner who has addiction or if, or, or a, a big history of trauma, where that means if they don't take on retraining their own nervous system, [00:39:00] their capacity and their skill level for relating remains the same.
Right? And so then if there's a big disparity in capacity,
Nick Brancato: hmm.
Charna Cassell: You know, I mean, that's one of the things that I kept thinking about given the, the, the clients who come to see me. It's, it's like, okay, so with this book, both people need to have the interest in doing self-reflection and, and working on the relationship.
They have the, the willingness, right. And they have to have the capacity.
Nick Brancato: Yes. Capacity is important. Yeah. Because sometimes you're so tied up, your resources are so pushed to the brink that it's hard to do anything. But what I would encourage is even a minor version of this. Mm-hmm. Like a little, almost a gamification where you just say, list your top three priorities.
. What are the three things you're focused on today or this month, or whatever, and just get it out for yourself. And then if you can, if you can list them, you can [00:40:00] ask your prior, you can just give your, you can ask, you can give your partner a list of 10 things and just say, number these one through 10.
You know, it doesn't have to be a big, intense conversation. It can just be like shedding light for yourself. And then you take these back and you look at them and you, and then you come into your next interactions, a little more curious or with a little more understanding and. One of the things I would encourage people to look at is to look at where growth falls on the priority list.
Mm-hmm. Your point, which is really, if they're not growth oriented, if growth is in the top five, then that could be a problem. If someone's unwilling to do the work, if they're not focused on self-improvement at all, if they don't. Wanna be better tomorrow than they are today?
Charna Cassell: Yeah.
Nick Brancato: And then that's a red flag.
And maybe if you are growth oriented and your partner's not, that might be a difficult challenge to overcome.
Charna Cassell: you know, Here's this, this [00:41:00] overarching umbrella of growth. But what growth means to you could mean that you, you wanna go to the gym, right?
Nick Brancato: Yes.
Charna Cassell: And for this person, or you, you wanna work on your career, like that's your personal growth.
But, but your partner is saying, I'm starving here for intimate, for emotional and physical intimacy. And if emotional and physical intimacy with your partner is, is, doesn't rank. On your priorities list, you know, then, then it's a, a come to Jesus moment with, you know what, you know what I mean? Like, it's okay.
Okay. Well, so where, where are we here? Do we just parent our children together? Are we better as co-parents? You know, what can we do here? And, and I think the thing that you're saying is being honest with yourself. About what your priorities are and also being honest about your, your partner's actions.
They may say one thing, but what are their actions? What are they actually [00:42:00] showing you? Yes. And maybe you're not even, you're too scared to have that honest dialogue. Right? That's the first piece, obviously.
Nick Brancato: Fear is certainly an obstacle that many people encounter. They're afraid of what the results might be, but what you're really looking for isn't equality.
You're not really looking for balance. I think balance is one of the most misunderstood concepts in a relationship. Balance is a temporary state. Mm-hmm. You're balanced on one side, not the other. It's not sustainable. What you're really looking for is inequality. You are looking for equilibrium. You wanna account for each other's differences and you want it to be sustainable.
So my, , criteria is always can, what we do is what we are doing mutually beneficial and long-term sustainable. Mm-hmm. And just asking yourself a simple question, does it move us closer together or further apart? Exactly. And just vetting all your decisions around that has a tremendous [00:43:00] impact.
Charna Cassell: Yes, yes.
It's so people are, can get so stuck in the being right.
And it's like, well,
do you wanna be right or do you wanna be connected? And, and I do, I, because I do physical practices where people literally move towards each other or away. Oh, that's cool. Or I'm paying attention to the, to the nonverbal. Maybe it was all that poker with my grandpa, but, but I'm paying attention to like, are they leaning away from each other?
Yes. You know what I mean? These subtle things. But it's like when you just said that. What did your part, what did you see? Did, did you, do you feel closer to your person or do you feel further away from them?
Nick Brancato: Absolutely. It's like, , what game are they playing? Are they playing a finite game or an infinite game?
A finite game is one where there's, a, a goal and you're trying to win. There's usually a winner and a loser. Mm-hmm. In an infinite game, your goal is to keep playing with the like highest quality of life possible. So you're trying to sustain what's going on [00:44:00] for all the players involved, or for certainly the players on your team, which is your partner.
And so when you approach things, not to just try to get a particular outcome mm-hmm. Like you're not trying to win an argument. You're not trying to get someone to do the dishes for you. You're not trying to get someone to take out the trash. Mm-hmm. You're not trying to get a particular thing. You're trying to increase your understanding of the person and grow together, if that's possible.
If that's what they want, and if that's, and to find out as quickly as possible, how compatible are you with your partner.
Charna Cassell: Yeah.
Nick Brancato: If you are growth oriented in a personal development way, and they're growth oriented in a skill acquisition way. This is something that you're gonna have to reconcile. And one of the things that I would encourage people to do is called a parallel play.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's when two people are in the same space working on different activities at the same time. So I might be writing, my wife might be [00:45:00] reading a book, or she might be working on a course and I might be editing something. So we're, we're in the same space. We're playing in parallel. So.
When people are skilled acquisition developers and when people are personal development workers, sometimes you see this in a relationship, but they can go on at the same time. In the same space often. And that can be a way to connect. And then it gives you a shared context of like, this is what they're doing.
This is why they're frustrated. Oh, they encountered this. You can see their behavioral information even though you're not. Directly talking to each other. There's a form of communication going on and a form of connection. That's, that's really powerful.
Charna Cassell: So I'm curious in terms of the couples that you've worked with, , the poker players have to be able to be more contained in Cool.
Under pressure, right. So that's one part of the couple, but they're partners. So I've often, I've worked with very, you know, [00:46:00] volatility, right? So if there's a partner who you tr that, like one person is trying to initiate an honest dialogue or a hard conversation or a, you know, talking about a priority and then the other person, their nervous system can't tolerate even the subject being brought up and they explode.
Charna Cassell: Right. Is that something that you've worked with?
Nick Brancato: Yes, that is something that I've worked with and for me, the way I dealt with it and resolved it was by, , incorporating turn-based communication instead of real time communication. So instead of trying to go back and forth and interrupt and deal with the emotions in real time, we deal with them in a turn-based way.
So could be sending emails to each other, could be going back and forth through text without a time limit. So like, take as much time as you need to reply to this message. These are my thoughts on this. Or, or with the priorities. Like, here's my [00:47:00] list, here's your list. Let's look at them separately. Let's ask each other a question and we'll take turns going back and forth asking one question.
So why is this your in your top three? Why is this in your bottom three? What about career is so important to you right now? Usually. I find that the person has an issue with something for other reasons. So it's not what's going on on the surface. It's about a higher level problem.
Charna Cassell: Oh, of course.
Nick Brancato: Right? Yeah, of course.
Yeah, so, so when you incorporate turn-based communication, people are a little more comfortable. They don't. Feel as, , triggered usually. Mm-hmm. They're able to take deep breaths and respond, , not immediately and really think about their responses. And it just makes communication so much more thoughtful.
And it's also, it helps you with your [00:48:00] own thoughts. Like if you have to write an email to someone, it's a whole lot different than if you're just gonna have a conversation with someone. Especially if it's a difficult conversation.
Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yeah.
Nick Brancato: Even writing an email and not sending it.
Just to get
your own thoughts down is powerful.
Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a hard one. 'cause there are some people who can't even, and if you're living with the person
Nick Brancato: Yeah. Yes.
Charna Cassell: You know, and if they don't have the capacity, I mean, one of the things that is, is great if, if someone has a basic skill level and to get, getting curious is, is the most useful thing.
And it's the, you know, antidote to fear. And so getting curious about your person's priorities. Why that priority ranks the way it ranks, et cetera. But if somebody, if one of the people lack the capacity to empathize and get curious because their needs are the only needs.
Nick Brancato: Right? Yes. That's
Charna Cassell: [00:49:00] right.
Nick Brancato: Yes. That's tricky. Often if one partner is unavailable in some way because their needs are the only needs, then. I would work with them individually and see if this is like something that is a personality, uh, , disorder, potentially. Yeah. Or if it's, if it's something that is a little more malleable, if it's something that I can work with, you know, a lot of times.
More often than, than I would've ever thought. People just don't really know what curiosity looks like. Mm-hmm. They don't even know that they're allowed to ask these probing questions. They think that they have to answer like multiple choice questions or like really simple things about what goes on in their day, like, what'd you do today?
Or what'd you eat for lunch? These surface level things they don't even realize. They're allowed to get curious about. The why's. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? You know, what are your [00:50:00] motives? I wanna understand you. I wanna learn about you. And one of the things is setting up a frame.
Mm-hmm. So having listening filters, when you read or listen to your partner, are you listening from a positive spot or a negative one? Like, are you listening? From a defensive position, are you listening to truly understand? Are you listening, waiting for your turn to speak? Mm-hmm. Are you formulating your counter response as they're saying it instead of listening fully and completely and then taking your time to respond?
Like, are they even able to get in their whole sentiment.
Charna Cassell: Right? Right. That, that it is. Is absolutely essential with, with all your kids, your mm-hmm. Parents, your, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super important. Somehow all of our time has evaporated. I've been so in the press, and, you know, and this is what I do. I, I am always, I always prepare a [00:51:00] zillion questions, and then I never ask any of those question.
That's what I do. So there's so many more things I wanna talk to you about. And, Is there any kind of, , exercise that you have? People that you work with do that helps them get into, you know, you were mentioning earlier, we're talking about breath exercises, but getting into a frame of mind, for instance, before having a hard conversation, or perhaps it's a big game, but is there something that you would like to guide our listeners through?
Nick Brancato: Sure. So taking yourself into the present moment. As much as possible through grounding exercises, I think is very powerful. So I would ask myself right now as a listener, what are three things that I feel? So it could be the chair you're sitting in. It could be the fabric of the [00:52:00] material. It could be the cool air coming from the air conditioner or the heat.
, On your skin, what are three things that I feel? What are three things that I see? Name three things in the room. What are three things that I hear? So what we're doing is we're exploring our senses, bringing ourselves into the present, and meditation. Even a quick five second energy check where you are.
I would encourage people to have like a mantra that they say where when they're in a relaxed moment and they're grounding themselves, it's something they could say, can be a fake word. If you do transcendental meditation, they give you a mantra that, that, that just sounds like nothing, so that it doesn't distract you with an association.
So you could make up a word and use that as your mantra. . , , Like a sound, , or you can make up a phrase, something that's important to you. Or you can obviously Google one and just get one, but just a short one sentence, [00:53:00] phrase or word that you can repeat yourself while, while you're in a grounded state while you're breathing.
Once you feel your breathing clearly, say this to yourself. Say it out loud if you can, and create this, , habit of associating this phrase with this calm state of being. And then when you're at the poker table and you need a minute to analyze a big decision, you can say this phrase to yourself for a few seconds and take five or 10 seconds before you dive into your decision.
And you can do that at your work. You can do that before a difficult conversation. , I would even set a timer. You don't want to do it too long, actually, you know, not more than two minutes. 30 seconds is enough, but you don't want to sit there and try to do it for 10 minutes because then you're forcing a level of willpower.
And attention and, , you're draining your resources by sort of forcing yourself into a 10 minute [00:54:00] situation. Maybe that's not the best thing to do before a difficult conversation. I'd keep it below two so that your resources are ready for the the big talk.
Charna Cassell: I love that the, the idea of like, you're like, okay, I'm about to go run a marathon.
What, what are my resources? I don't wanna spend them. So you're being, you're really being very mindful of how your resources are allocated.
Nick Brancato: Yes. Right?
Charna Cassell: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, I mean, in a, in a bigger way, this, this book is really a mindfulness book. It is like all those things, all those tiny little things, all being mindful of what you're eating, what you're thinking, what you're consuming, what the media is, you know, like transitions.
All the, all the moments. Yeah. Beautiful. How can people find you and, and, and the full title of the book and everything?
Nick Brancato: Sure. So the book is called Prioritize Us. They can get it on Amazon or if they can get it on its [00:55:00] paperback or hard back, or hardcover on Amazon or as an ebook. But if you go to nickbrancato.com, that's N-I-C-K-B-R-A-N-C-A-T-O, nickbrancato.com, they can get prioritized as the ebook.
Absolutely free. So my goal is just help as many couples as possible. So I just wanna get it out there. I want people to read it, take the test, share it. . And if somebody's interested in learning more, they can go to nickbrancato.com or they can go on Instagram at @personaldevcoach like development, DEV, @personaldevcoach on Instagram.
I post all kinds of tips and I keep people up to date with the things that I'm creating. And if anybody has any questions, feel free to DM me. I'd love to hear from you. I'm very passionate about this, so any conversations are a positive one to me.
Charna Cassell: That's awesome. Thank you so much, Nick.
Nick Brancato: Thank you so much for having me.
It's been a pleasure.
Charna Cassell: Thanks for joining us today. If you enjoyed this [00:56:00] episode and found it to be useful, please share it with your friends. If you'd like to stay connected, you can find me on Instagram and Facebook at LaidOPEN Podcast. That's LaidOPEN Podcast, L-A-I-D-O-P-E-N-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. And you can learn more about my work at passionatelife.org or read my blog and listen to other podcast episodes at charnacassell dot com You can also find my course there and my workbook about how to transform your life and regulate your nervous system. If you've been listening to The LaidOPEN Podcast, you can also watch it now on YouTube. Looking forward to you listening next time. Please feel free to reach out. if you have any questions.
This has been LaidOPEN Podcast, and I'm your host, Charna [00:57:00] Cassell.
We all have different capacities, but I believe in our capacity to grow and change together. Until next time.
