Dating Consultant Celeste Moore
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From Heartbreak to Happily Ever After: Dating Insights with Celeste Moore

The complexities of communication and personal image in our relationships, particularly in the context of dating, can often feel overwhelming. To give insight into this, Charna interviews Celeste Moore, a personal image and dating consultant in the latest pre-Valentine’s Day episode of LaidOpen Podcast.

Dating and Communication

A substantial part of the conversation revolves around the subject of dating. From the guy’s perspective (Celeste’s primary clientele), how should they approach dating? And from an observer’s perspective, what are some common pitfalls they should avoid? According to Celeste, it’s essential her clients be open, receptive, and willing to break patterns they’ve repeatedly fallen into.

Celeste advises men to remain authentic, be in tune with their image, focus on active listening, and ask open-ended questions. She also emphasizes the importance of body language and how to conduct oneself in different settings, like a restaurant. Celeste stresses that men should exude confidence and understand what they want in a relationship.

Parenting and Communication

Interestingly, the interview took an enlightening detour into the world of parenting. Celeste introduces her concept of being a sole parent and explores how nurturing her parent-child relationship has impacted her understanding of relationships overall, including dating.

Online Dating and Confidence Building

Even if you’ve been a sole parent or facing challenges with self-image, Celeste argues anyone can build the confidence to venture into the world of dating, including online dating. For those who make electronic connections, always be authentic, avoid negativity, be real about personal attributes (age, height, background), and most importantly, do not incorporate controversial elements (like pictures with dead animals or exes).

Final Thoughts

While every person’s journey and challenges in the realm of communication, personal image, and dating are unique, Celeste’s insights offer guidance that holds value for anyone dating in the modern world. Authenticity, openness, breaking patterns, positive communication, and even color psychology in dress – each carries a piece of wisdom for those striving to navigate new beginnings. Remember, it’s vital to be adaptable, confront your insecurities, focus on personal growth, and develop the confidence to succeed.

Show Notes Celeste Moore Audio Interview [00:00:00] Charna Cassell: Welcome back, friends. I love that you're spending your precious time with me. This week is not only my birthday, but it's also Chinese New Year. [00:00:08] Charna Cassell: Happy birthday, fellow Aquarians, and those of you who celebrate Chinese New Year. While I'm more of a Palantine's celebrator than a Valentine's fan, time. I saved this week's guest, Celeste Moore, for Valentine's Day. Clients and friends seem to be having a rough first month of 20 24, and Celeste helps people navigate new beginnings. Many of our clients are men divorced after decades of marriage and don't know where to start. [00:00:34] Charna Cassell: While we all may need a little more guidance and grounding right now, we can also use a bit more lightness. I hope this conversation with a dating coach brings a lighter break from crazy weather, heartbreaking current events, and sometimes bleak paralysis that can set in for people who are out there dating. I hope you enjoy this episode. [00:00:54] Charna Cassell: Today's guest is Celeste Moore. Celeste is a personal image and dating consultant for men. Welcome, Celeste. [00:01:02] [00:01:48] Celeste Moore: Thank you, Charna, for having me today. I'm so excited to be on your show. [00:01:53] Charna Cassell: I'm excited to have you. And I'm sure all the the fellas listening in are gonna gleaned some useful information from this conversation. [00:02:03] Celeste Moore: I hope so. [00:02:04] Charna Cassell: Yeah. [00:02:05] Celeste Moore: That's the idea. Right? [00:02:06] Charna Cassell: So I'm curious. What compelled you to become a dating coach for men? [00:02:12] Celeste Moore: So, originally, this is crazy because I I graduated college thinking I was going to law school. I kinda had my whole, you know, life planned out. And started prepping for the LSAT, and all my friends were getting into law school. And I was just like, you know, am I doing this who am I doing this for? And so I really kinda sat back and was like, no. [00:02:36] Celeste Moore: I don't wanna do this. I really was interested in in owning a business. And so I'm like, okay. Well, what do I wanna do? And I just started going through a couple of my passions. [00:02:48] Celeste Moore: And I knew that if I focus So in in that area, at least I'd have fun. I mean, I didn't know if I'd make money, [00:02:54] Charna Cassell: Uh-huh. [00:02:55] Celeste Moore: least I'd enjoy myself. [00:02:56] Charna Cassell: A so so that far back. So you were oh, wow. Okay. [00:03:00] Charna Cassell: in how long have you been in this career? [00:03:02] Celeste Moore: So let me just preface, though. The dating coach has been the most recent. [00:03:07] Celeste Moore: When I started going through the passions, the first 1 is I got certified to become a matchmaker. And I put that kind of on the back burner a little bit just because I felt I was really young and kind of inexperienced, and I really didn't have, you know, the plethora of people that I wanted at the time. So the next 1 was image consulting. So I got certified, trained, and went through all of that, and that was back in 2006. So I've been an image consultant And then as I was going through men and women and so on and so forth, I just kinda focused on men because they just were really easier and, you know, just they they they needed something. We got there, and it was just efficient. [00:03:53] Charna Cassell: I thought you were gonna say they were just in more need. [00:03:58] Charna Cassell: A but the fact that you were like, it was it was it's really interesting. Right? It was easy efficient. I can understand. Like, a what what were some of the tensions, like, that that you experienced with women versus men and that guided you towards working with men? [00:04:15] Celeste Moore: Yeah. 1 of them was the fact that women would hire me, but have, like, arguments with me all the time. They weren't, like, really interested in what I had to say and and or it was a competition. It was like, You know? I I'm like, well, why I don't know why you hired me. [00:04:36] Celeste Moore: And that wasn't all women. The the serious ones, the ones that were in business or or the ones that were really looking for something. That was It was 1 in 20, I would say. It was very few. And every man that hired me really wanted my opinion and my advice, so they could be successful. [00:04:55] Celeste Moore: I kind of just kept going towards men. And, also, in my delivery, I am very direct and kind of to the point. I didn't have all the flowery stuff even though I, you know, I do with my friends and family. But but with work, I'm like, Let's get it done. [00:05:11] Celeste Moore: Let's do what we need to do. So, anyways, I know this is the long version of that, but the dating coach came a couple years ago Because I kept getting asked. They were really interested in the matchmaking, the dating part. The image was gravy on everything else. And so I really kind of rebranded and decided, you know what? [00:05:31] Celeste Moore: I'm gonna get certified as a date coach. I'm just gonna kinda put everything that I know together, my years of experience, and so that's where I am today. So that's only been a few years. [00:05:42] Charna Cassell: Got it. Okay. Yeah. So it it makes a sense. [00:05:46] Charna Cassell: I mean, you know, anytime you're dealing with dating and image and all of that, a you're gonna hit up against people's conditioning. And maybe with with the women, there was a level of resistance and a lack of receptivity a is what it sounds like you're pointing to because the men were just like, I don't even know where to start. Give me a direction. Point me there. And then there's, you know, internal conflicted stuff, different parts wanting different things that you're bumping up against with the women. [00:06:16] Celeste Moore: Probably. I'm sure there was quite a bit of layers. And and I was like, you know, I at that point in my life, I just didn't maybe I didn't have the the experience or the know how or with the with all and maybe now today I would? Because I I do have some female clients. It's just not the majority. [00:06:37] Charna Cassell: Well, I think it's also really important. I think having your niche and knowing, like, a who's my audience. It actually helps people know exactly who to send to you, and that that's really useful. [00:06:48] Charna Cassell: and to know who do you enjoy? Like, you get to have pleasure in your in your work. And who do you feel like you're really a good match for? You know? Like, I know I the people who I work with that love me love me, and then I'm not everyone's cup of tea. [00:07:01] Charna Cassell: Right? I'm not a con conventional psychotherapist. [00:07:05] Celeste Moore: I like that. [00:07:06] Charna Cassell: Who who are the people that you do? Like, do if you were to describe your ideal client, who would that person be? [00:07:13] Celeste Moore: Definitely open and receptive. That's first and foremost. [00:07:16] Celeste Moore: Right? I really want someone to come to me because they have a struggle that they haven't been able to, you know, find their misright, if you will, or their partner or the person for them. And Mind you, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a therapist. So if we get down to those levels, then I'm definitely referring them. [00:07:38] Celeste Moore: I'm Giving them the the knowledge and building confidence through their image and dating coaching skills and and finding out where those same patterns are happening. Right? So definitely someone that's open and receptive, , someone that just really needs some guidance, some support sometimes like a total makeover. And it's a total makeover sometimes outside and in. Right? [00:08:04] Celeste Moore: They're having the same patterns happen over and over again, and they're just realizing, See. Oh my god. I think it's me. [00:08:11] Charna Cassell: mhmm. Mhmm. [00:08:12] Charna Cassell: Right. So they're willing to take some responsibility and look at themselves and have someone else really look at them. [00:08:18] Celeste Moore: Yeah. And that's hard for every anybody. [00:08:20] Celeste Moore: Right? I think, especially and I and I don't wanna sound sexist, but In my experience, it's been much harder for men to admit that there is something that they need help with. Right? Because the guy is supposed to have it figured out. He's the guy the person that doesn't ask for directions because he could be lost for 2 hours and, you know, we ask for directions. [00:08:42] Celeste Moore: It's it's kind of that mentality. So breaking that down and say, no. I'm here because I want to do this, because I love to do this, and I enjoy doing this. So it's okay to admit these things because you know what? That's not always gonna be the case. [00:08:58] Charna Cassell: yeah. Alright. [00:08:59] Charna Cassell: So are you doing a little of the the queer eye for the straight guy a [00:09:02] Celeste Moore: Oh, I wish I had a Bobby. [00:09:06] Charna Cassell: oh my god. Doesn't everybody? [00:09:10] Celeste Moore: I'm lacking the Bobby. So if anyone here wants to come and be my Bobby Yeah. So I'm taking a little bit of Karam, a little Little bit of, you know, Jonathan and definitely Tan and, , Anthony. I I don't teach them how to cook. [00:09:24] Celeste Moore: But I give them suggestions to take a cooking class. [00:09:27] Charna Cassell: Uh-huh. [00:09:27] Charna Cassell: Uh-huh. Yeah. a good wooing skill to have. [00:09:32] Celeste Moore: For sure. [00:09:33] Charna Cassell: yeah. You do specifically work with straight man, or do you also work with Damon? Like, [00:09:38] Celeste Moore: You know, predominantly heterosexual I love everybody, but it's just most of the time and I also this is so this is so, like, not good to say, but Most gay men take care of themselves. And I'm saying most. Right? [00:09:54] Celeste Moore: There are those guys that are a little bit lost as well. But most men in that And and the gay community are, like, grooming themselves. They know what it means to, like, work out and be mindful and, you know, do these things to make them self look and feel sexy. So that's not typical of my client, but [00:10:14] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. [00:10:15] Celeste Moore: Just because they understand the importance of image. [00:10:19] Charna Cassell: A mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. [00:10:21] Charna Cassell: They're not the people that are are seeking that kind of support often [00:10:26] Celeste Moore: Right. Maybe the date coach part, but [00:10:28] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. [00:10:29] Celeste Moore: yeah. So [00:10:30] Charna Cassell: And do you specifically work with a people coming out of divorce, or it's just a total range? [00:10:38] Celeste Moore: Well, the majority of my clients are definitely coming out of some type of long term commitment committed relationship. Divorce is definitely up there. But I also have clients that have been married to the career. [00:10:50] Celeste Moore: They've, like, you know, they've been in med school forever and internships and residencies. And then, oh, I forgot about the dating part. Or I just had sex along the way or just, you know, was getting some needs met and a date here and there, but nothing serious. And so that's pretty much the 2 common, , type of clients that are coming to me Anyhow yeah. Oh I do have 1 other client, and this is very different because it's the married guy. It's the guy that's in the relationship that wants to spice it up, that's looking and dressing like he was when he was 20 and 30. And so my clients range about 40 to 60, I would say, late late thirties. And I know that's a big age range, but so they've kind of been through like I said, they're at the peak of their career. They're in a new relationship, never dated before, or They're in a marriage that's kind of, like, fizzling, and the wife's contacting me. It's saying, please make my husband sexy again. [00:12:00] Celeste Moore: Teach him how to date me. Teach him how to, like, bring some romance back to this. You know? So those are my 3 top clients. [00:12:09] Charna Cassell: I love that you do that last 1 because I think that that's so important and needed. [00:12:15] Charna Cassell: And the motivation for that latter 1, I imagine, is less best. Strong. Right? Because you know? It's interesting. [00:12:24] Charna Cassell: It's the it's the wives that are contacting you. It's not them. A Right? Because they're like, I don't see the problem. [00:12:31] Celeste Moore: Exactly. I can wear the same shorts around the house, and I can, you know, not date my wife. I think it's really important from for guys out there to know, like, okay. Once you've gotten married, the honeymoon phase is over. [00:12:46] Celeste Moore: That doesn't stop there. It's the most important part is to maintain your relationship, to to keep dating your wife. I mean, Try new things. Do be adventurous here and there. You know, I don't know. [00:12:59] Celeste Moore: I can go on and on, but it's really important. [00:13:02] Charna Cassell: you can you can go on and on. Take it. Take it, lady. [00:13:06] Celeste Moore: You know, I love to suggest all different avenues of the dating world. And and let's just say it's Harry and Sally. Okay. [00:13:17] Celeste Moore: You know, Harry is needing to know how to bring the spice back into his life. Maybe his wife just come stopped wanting to have sex or doesn't look at him the same or he doesn't feel desired. And so We work on his whole new, you know, image from , let's say, his 45 year old guy. And, like, let's bring him into the modern world. [00:13:38] Celeste Moore: Let's show him what it is and how how to be. And then talk about the dating part. Like, Okay. I know that each and every 1 of us, we grow. We change. [00:13:49] Celeste Moore: And some of our hobbies are growing. Some of the things we wanna do in life. Maybe we wanna go to some part of the world. So it's like taking those things about what it is that he wants to do and the things that maybe she wants to do. Right? [00:14:03] Celeste Moore: And do some homework here and start doing baby steps. Do something locally. Do something I don't know. Go to a winery for the for a day. [00:14:12] Celeste Moore: Or even, like, as Stand up paddle boarding on the lake. Like, let's just do things that that's not the norm. It's breaking that cycle of of the norm to, you know, have a little adventure, bring a little spark. Maybe look at that person a little bit differently And say, oh my gosh. He still has it. [00:14:30] Celeste Moore: Right? Oh, he still looks really sexy without, you know, a shirt on, and he's learning to surf or you know? I I don't know. [00:14:37] Charna Cassell: A yeah. [00:14:38] Charna Cassell: Well, and I think getting out of the ordinary, there's a meditation teacher that I've worked with 1 of the things that he likes to do is to create retreats that are all inclusive so that you don't have any worries in that you go into a state of abundance. [00:14:53] Celeste Moore: Oh, I love [00:14:54] Charna Cassell: And I wanted to in buying my home and creating a this this doorway that you walk through. I wanted it to create a sense of walking through a portal. Right? And so there's a mentality shift. [00:15:06] Charna Cassell: So I have these Moroccan doors that you walk through in order to get into my office and, you know, then there's this garden that's kind of like this expansive space. So just stepping out of what is predictable and what is [00:15:19] Celeste Moore: Mhmm. [00:15:20] Charna Cassell: is ordinary so that you can expand your concept of what life can look like, what your a relationship can look like, how you can feel. Right? Like, doing things to alter states without having to take drugs a is a positive. You know? [00:15:35] Charna Cassell: So and drugs are an option too. But, you know yeah. But even doing something like a paddle boarding, which is literally destabilizing, but also it's like, how can you find your center, your strength, your a different orientation? [00:15:50] Celeste Moore: Yeah. And I think it just really depends, you know, where you live. [00:15:54] Celeste Moore: Just start start, like I said, It was something different. I mean, it doesn't have to be just in a new restaurant or a new this. I mean I love to tell first daters to do an adventure, to go on do something that you've always wanted to do because it takes the pressure off the awkwardness of the date. Right? But it also like, you get these oxytocin, and you get the natural feel good chemicals that happen when you're and adventurous. [00:16:22] Celeste Moore: And even if it's not skydiving, maybe it's just, you know, doing a new hike and looking at the sunset or just Something where you're out and about. You know? So the pressure's off. There's feel good chemicals. And so it's usually just a really good time regardless if you're really not wanting to do you know, go on a second date. [00:16:42] Celeste Moore: So [00:16:43] Charna Cassell: Right. It's funny. I'm thinking of, like, you know, dating shows where what they they make them do. They're like, okay. You're terrified of heights. [00:16:49] Charna Cassell: You have to repel down this building. We will bond because there's trauma bonding that occurs. It's like, you are terrified. You will be bonded to this person for life, and they will inevitably be 1 of the last standing women on the show. Right? [00:17:03] Charna Cassell: But, no, there's something to also walking. You know, when you're hiking or you're you're walking side by side rather than sitting across from another person where you're interrogating them. A right? You're actually like, you're on the same team. You're shoulder to shoulder. [00:17:17] Charna Cassell: It's like, okay. We're we're teammates, and it's just a very subconscious way of a creating connection rather than, [00:17:25] Celeste Moore: Yeah. I [00:17:26] Charna Cassell: adversarial. [00:17:29] Celeste Moore: Yeah. [00:17:29] Celeste Moore: I don't like that first dinner date or that awkward, like, coffee dates sit like this. I just think it's It's too much. And like you said, a lot of people can drop into the interrogation so easy and so fast. [00:17:41] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. [00:17:42] Celeste Moore: And, hopefully, by the time my clients sleep, and they're actually going out to date that they are asking questions that are not interrogation questions, but they're getting to know you, but in the right way. And so it allows the person to talk about their passions or their hobbies or things that they or where they wanna be in a couple years or what their favorite place they traveled to and why and, like, what that means to them. [00:18:09] Celeste Moore: And, You know, they can you can learn so much about someone when you actively listen ask the right open ended questions to allow the person to really share about themselves. [00:18:24] Charna Cassell: I'm curious about how much detail you go into a with your clients? Like, do you do role playing with them and give them the opportunity to to practice asking those kinds of questions? Because there are a so many people who don't have that training and don't know how to do that. [00:18:40] Celeste Moore: Yeah. I don't know who really teaches that to us. I mean, it's just something that we figure out and some of us just never figure out. But, yeah, I I do what's called mock dates. [00:18:49] Celeste Moore: When it's on Zoom, it's a little bit different because, you know, I can't really sit there and, you know, you didn't properly use the right fork you know, as an image consultant, we're trained in dining etiquette and dating etiquette. And so In person, it's great because you know? I mean, what if he's never getting that second date because he's picking his teeth with with the knife? Or I've seen terrible things. I've seen things that I'm like, oh my god. [00:19:18] Celeste Moore: My my jaws, like, dropped to the floor because I can't believe that actually just happened, and it does. And so it could be literally something that they don't even think that's happening. Right? [00:19:31] Charna Cassell: a [00:19:32] Celeste Moore: talking rude to the waiter or I there's all these things. And so, yes, the mock dates in person are great because I don't sit there with a clipboard and a paper and making check marks. [00:19:44] Celeste Moore: I want them to plan the date as if they were going to plan the date for anybody. [00:19:50] Charna Cassell: A [00:19:51] Celeste Moore: And we do the date. Like, this is what happens. So I I see how he is at the restaurant. Let's just say it's at the restaurant for for dining etiquette purposes. [00:20:00] Celeste Moore: And, usually, that's what where it is. It's like not my first date, but I wanna see where they're at. And then dating etiquette. Right? So how they are speaking, what they're saying on the date, what if they're talking too much, if they're not listening enough, if you know, there's a whole slew of of things that we do that I do teach them. [00:20:21] Celeste Moore: And so after and hopefully after our 3 months, we can have the the next mock date and kind of go over what they've learned, and, hopefully, they'll be ready to go off into the world and be successful. [00:20:34] Charna Cassell: Did you say after 3 months? [00:20:36] Celeste Moore: Mhmm. [00:20:37] Celeste Moore: So for 3 months, we do coaching in between. Yeah. This is just the actual, like, practice date, if you will. [00:20:44] Celeste Moore: Yeah. [00:20:45] Charna Cassell: A I was like, we're on the slow roll to finding a partner. [00:20:51] Celeste Moore: No. No. That's a very compact image, coaching, mock dating. You know, it's very compact, actually. [00:20:58] Charna Cassell: So for you I'm curious if you're partnered and if you are or if you've been throughout the years where you're doing this, how do partners feel about you going on all these dates with other men, and do they up their game because they realize, like, oh my god. She's going on all these really fun dates. A I need to be more fun or, like, more engaging because clearly, she know you know, she has a standard, and she's teaching other people how to have standards. [00:21:26] Celeste Moore: That's interesting you say that. I haven't been partnered the whole time. I would say for a while, I've been single, but I had dated here and there. And 1 particular gentleman in particular was very, like, paying attention to the highest degree to where it was constantly, like, little improvements. And I was like, what are you doing? [00:21:51] Celeste Moore: Like, it was almost like, [00:21:54] Charna Cassell: Like, inauthentic. [00:21:55] Celeste Moore: Yeah. And and I said stop you know, just because this is what I do for profession, yes, I want you and I hold you to high standards. But it's it was almost like he wanted to try something new all the time. Like, maybe you're getting bored. Maybe you're like you know, he was very concerned that he wasn't going to be enough, if you will. [00:22:16] Charna Cassell: Yeah. [00:22:17] Celeste Moore: you know, it it was very sweet, But, you know, it just that 1 didn't work out. So [00:22:22] Charna Cassell: it's I think it's a tricky thing being in a field where you're a you know, I do sex therapy with people, and I've had men I've dated say that they're intimidated. You know? A and it's really it's it's an unfortunate thing to to have you know, everyone has their insecurities. [00:22:40] Charna Cassell: Right? A to have this person that you were dating to, you know, for him to not be able to just, like, settle in and be present with you, but to feel like had to be something that he was doing that was gonna, like, win you over, and, of course, it's it's it's everything. A butt. Yeah. So [00:22:58] Celeste Moore: You know? [00:22:58] Charna Cassell: curious what you that experience is for you. [00:23:01] Celeste Moore: I just think that at the end of the day, know, you have to nurture that relationship in the same way. And I don't think that I was focused enough into that relationship, putting enough time and I thought it was enough, and, clearly, it wasn't enough. So and and that's understandable, especially, like, for what I do a living. [00:23:24] Celeste Moore: Like you said, you know, it can intimidate men when it's like, no. It's just it's my career. It's what I do. It's what I love. But it's It's nothing personal. [00:23:33] Celeste Moore: It's just professional. And some guys just can't separate the 2. So you know? [00:23:41] Charna Cassell: yeah. There was there was I was listening to 1 of your episodes with the guy who specifically coaches divorcees. And, a yeah. Yeah. And and there was something that I felt I felt more you didn't say that much about it, but I felt more aligned with you, and I wanted to talk about it a little bit. [00:24:03] Charna Cassell: A he was talking about putting his partner first over the kids, and I think it's a very complex a issue that can be expanded upon, and it felt like it was just it was reduced. It there was it was too brief, and it's it's more complex. A and and 1 of the things that you had said was, I really liked the phrasing here. Something like you were like, I think of myself not just as a single parent, but as a sole parent. [00:24:30] Celeste Moore: Mhmm. [00:24:31] Charna Cassell: And I wanted to hear what that meant to you, a and then I just you know, I wanna we can talk a little bit about [00:24:38] Celeste Moore: Yeah. For sure. So, really, I have been a sole parent. Yeah. Nobody died, but it was kinda it is kinda like a death. When my daughter was a month old, my partner and I at the time, we were not married because I had been married in the past, and it was really not something that I knew I wanted to do again. But we committed to each other and wanted to have a family, so this was actively trying to have a child for a couple years. [00:25:06] Celeste Moore: And it just really did start to fade fade and fizzle, and there's a lot that went wrong. But he was really trying to change his ways of coping skills and whatnot. And at the end of the day, you know, he was a drug user, and he only knew how to cope with numbing himself. And when he tried to get sober, it was like this beast came alive, and I was not gonna tolerate it. I didn't want my daughter around it. [00:25:36] Celeste Moore: I didn't wanna have that in her life. And I decided when she was 5 to terminate his rights. And I say 5 specifically because I wanted to leave the country for my best friend's wedding, and my lawyer I went to was like no. You need to terminate rights. He was never around after that like, here and there, we'd meet at a park, but it was, like, very, very maybe 5 times. [00:26:00] Celeste Moore: She was 2 the last time she saw him, and I never did that. The single parent to me means that there's another parent that you share responsibilities with, even if it's once a month. I had my daughter from day 1 24 7 and most amazing thing ever, but I didn't get to experience even her having another parent involved. So when people say single parent, for to me, it just really hits home because there are people out there like me that weren't sharing,, you know, parental [00:26:36] Charna Cassell: A [00:26:37] Celeste Moore: duties, if you will. And so yeah. [00:26:40] Celeste Moore: And and so when I I will always put my daughter first. And so that's that's something that's really, tough for me when someone says, no. I'm gonna take I'm gonna always choose a spouse. And I'm just like, [00:26:54] Celeste Moore: yeah. [00:26:55] Charna Cassell: You know what's what's so interesting, and I didn't realize, you meant s o l e. I heard it as s o u l. [00:27:02] Charna Cassell: A [00:27:03] Celeste Moore: Oh, interesting. [00:27:05] Charna Cassell: right? Right? The double meaning there, and I think that there's it's a that's deep. Like, I'm just I was thinking, , that you meant on a on a soul level. Right? [00:27:16] Charna Cassell: Like, you were you were committed a that this was a being of service in a more expansive way than you know, like, there's a different energy to that than being a single mom. Right? [00:27:26] Celeste Moore: Yeah. And I yeah. [00:27:27] Charna Cassell: And then the other piece about I think that that doesn't get taken into consideration inside of the conversation of, like, putting a partner first. I had a teacher Stan Tatkin, who uses neuroscience and attachment, and he does he's a couple's therapist. And and he would talk about the couple bubble. [00:27:48] Charna Cassell: A and I do believe in creating a couple bubble and creating an alliance when you're with a partner, not, you know, not triangulating and not, a, you know, like, being on the same team and on the same page, and that it's really hard if you're allowing kids or work a or a friend or whatever it is to be a third, which can, um, make it harder to be a united front and be connected, like, you're using it as an escape or an exit route out of or to avoid things in the relationship. So I think that it's, like, more needs to get said about putting your partner first. [00:28:24] Celeste Moore: Yeah. [00:28:25] Charna Cassell: ultimately, you if you make a choice to bring a child into this world and your partnership is threatening the safety of that child. That obviously needs to be the priority. [00:28:36] Celeste Moore: Mhmm. [00:28:36] Charna Cassell: And, you know, my mom was an s o l e a parent as well. [00:28:41] Charna Cassell: And, you know, it was like she didn't make a bad choice to be to you know what I mean? She didn't make that choice, and she didn't make that choice. And so I have that same level of sensitivity of going like, I don't know, man. If my kid's level of safety was threatened in any way. There's no way I would put my partner first. [00:28:59] Charna Cassell: Right? Like, that's an unreasonable expectation, and I think that too many people out of insecurity default to doing that, and that's problematic. So, a you know, I just wanted to be the voice of supporting you [00:29:13] Celeste Moore: Thank you. [00:29:14] Charna Cassell: in that choice. [00:29:16] Celeste Moore: No. And you know, it's interesting you said s o u l. [00:29:19] Celeste Moore: Because Interesting enough I had a a month and a half before or I I had twins, And they were both bad. And I had 1 menstrual cycle, and then I they told me I couldn't get pregnant. And I was like, oh, great. [00:29:35] Celeste Moore: Because it's really not working out anyway. You know? Like, oh, fabulous. And then I my daughter, she She came and she you know, she's this miracle baby. But I I I feel in my heart, And I know this is a little deep, and may I'm not sure if this is something that you do on your show, but it's [00:29:53] Charna Cassell: Absolutely. [00:29:53] Celeste Moore: I think she was 1 of the twins, and I think that no matter what, She was destined, and she wanted me to be her mother for whatever reason. [00:30:01] Celeste Moore: And I know it I just feel it in my, like, my soul. Like, our souls are very, very Connected. And I absolutely she saved me and and grounded me on so many levels, and I'm forever grateful that I'm I get to be her mother, uh, yet she is 16 and a half now, and it is the hardest thing in the world. And I'm like, just go back to that time when you felt this way, Celeste. You know? [00:30:27] Celeste Moore: Like, ground yourself because man, [00:30:30] Charna Cassell: a Yeah. You're going through a trial. [00:30:33] Celeste Moore: I sure am. [00:30:34] Charna Cassell: a but no. [00:30:35] Charna Cassell: And, absolutely, that kind of stuff, that's that's totally my cup of [00:30:37] Charna Cassell: tea. [00:30:38] Celeste Moore: anyhow [00:30:39] Charna Cassell: And and that's how I heard it. I mean, you know, that's how I heard it is is I a I I believe that not everyone gets to spiritually evolve and develop compassion through the process of parenting a child. I wanted that, but that didn't opened for me, and I still hope to get to support the evolution of kids whether, you know, like, of a partner or some you know, having kids in my life in some capacity. I think it's a really important thing. [00:31:06] Charna Cassell: I get to do it with the the children inside of adults. Right? The clients I [00:31:09] Charna Cassell: have. [00:31:10] Celeste Moore: Yes. [00:31:11] Charna Cassell: And, a you know? And You you're you're right up against it, it sounds like. [00:31:15] Charna Cassell: You're you're you're you're like, okay. Here's the second round of evolution. Here we go. Thanks. A thanks, kiddo. [00:31:23] Celeste Moore: She's just her own. I mean, it's beautiful because she's her own spirit and soul and person, and I don't wanna change that. You just wanna guide them. And it's like, oh, shit. I know our parents said this was the hardest job ever. [00:31:38] Celeste Moore: And okay. Yeah. I'm feeling like because before, I was like, this is the greatest. This is the best. Like, she's so amazing. [00:31:44] Celeste Moore: And and then I was like, oh, 0, teenagers. This is fun. [00:31:49] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Well and then I'm curious about the how you use both in both directions, how you use what you have learned through parenting a to help support your clients as well as how do you take some of what you're teaching these men around building confidence in the world of dating and then use that and apply it for to yourself as a parent, [00:32:18] Celeste Moore: Yeah. [00:32:18] Charna Cassell: you know? [00:32:19] Charna Cassell: And then also working with your kid. Right? Taking some of the stuff you're you're teaching the guys and perhaps using them with your kid. [00:32:26] Celeste Moore: Yeah. [00:32:27] Celeste Moore: I think It's very different. There's very few men. I mean, Darren's 1 of the few who was on my show. I've only talked to a handful of guys that are involved as much as I wanna say I am. [00:32:40] Celeste Moore: And I and I don't mean that disrespectfully. [00:32:44] Celeste Moore: I just, [00:32:45] Charna Cassell: A [00:32:46] Celeste Moore: Statistically, they have an easier hand at the parenting, statistically. It's that's just from my experience. And there are guys out there who are doing it all, and it's amazing that any parent in in any capacity, It's, like, the most amazing job and because it's the hardest, and I get it. So there's a little bit of difference. Like, I don't And what I'm teaching my clients about that, you know, yes, we if we have teenage kids, you know, going through similarities, then we have certain discussions. [00:33:22] Celeste Moore: But I think It's really about dating people at this age. A lot of people have children. Right? So it's okay. There's you know, a guy that has a 3 year old right now may not be the best for me unless I wanna raise a child with them all over again, kind of, if that's something that I I choose to do. [00:33:43] Celeste Moore: So there's just, like there's a lot with parenting but I definitely talk about how it is to date someone with children, [00:33:52] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. Mhmm. [00:33:53] Celeste Moore: to really be delicate about it because you can have a parent like me that needs that that needs that delicate move. Because If you come in hot head headed and you're like, I know what to do, and I'm gonna no. No. No. No. [00:34:07] Celeste Moore: No. That's not something you do because you don't know anything about her or her children at that point. So it's a very slow progression [00:34:16] Celeste Moore: and really teaching them, like, how to date her. Right? I don't ever really get children involved until there is, like, there is some significance in your relationship [00:34:28] Charna Cassell: A Mhmm. [00:34:29] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. [00:34:30] Celeste Moore: because that it It shouldn't be about that. [00:34:33] Celeste Moore: It should be learning to see if this is the person for you or someone that you're really interested in and giving it a go, right, and being your authentic self and knowing what it is crystal clear of what it is that you want and that you don't want. And This could be that person, but it's like, okay. So now it's her, so focus on her. She does have children, but that's not what I want you to focus on right now. [00:34:59] Celeste Moore: Does your life align? [00:35:01] Celeste Moore: Do you have timing? Does it align? Are you both making the effort? You know? Because we're all really busy now in life. [00:35:09] Celeste Moore: Right? Especially as maybe our second life. Right? [00:35:12] Celeste Moore: If this is a second relationship. [00:35:14] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. Yeah. things are changing. [00:35:17] Celeste Moore: So, It's very customized, if you will, but, you know, the principles are the [00:35:24] Charna Cassell: a right. Yeah. I was thinking of I can't remember her last name. [00:35:28] Charna Cassell: Kaseya is her first name. There's a book called Unbound, and she was a a dominatrix and, , did martial arts and was reading a book about dog training when she kinda put all the pieces together and realized so she you know, she's written this book about it's energy exchange, and it's how to be how to be dominant or how to be submissive or how to be in your fully in your feminine. Right? Like, the the energetic exchanges of of having boundaries, a for instance. And so I was picturing you as a as a as a woman parenting a teenage daughter, and then what you're then how that it's a transferable skill of teaching a man how to perhaps command a space or how to be a how to be firm, but also caring. [00:36:14] Charna Cassell: And, you know, it's like taking these transferable skills. Right? [00:36:18] Celeste Moore: Life skills. [00:36:19] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. Mhmm. [00:36:20] Celeste Moore: No. I do like that. Yeah. They do apply just in a little bit different different area. [00:36:26] Celeste Moore: But, yeah, I'm constantly I'm so grateful that I am able to, , on my podcast, have all these amazing people and get to be on your show and learn so much that it's been life changing. It's only been a little over a year, and I've just learned so much, and I'm just I'm like a sponge. I feel like I'm a 3 year old child, and I just I wanna, like, absorb every kind of relationship and and story and and, you know, I I I love it. So, I'm not trying to reciprocate it, obviously, because like I said, I'm not licensed in those areas. But I'm I'm I'm just experienced and and actually meeting people so that I'm like, oh, This would be a great person for you to, you know, to have a session on. [00:37:12] Celeste Moore: Like, you you have these issues with sex that it's beyond my expertise. Right? It's beyond my coaching. Okay. You need to go and do this. [00:37:23] Charna Cassell: Well, I really think about working in collaborative ways, and the model for having a center that's like a homeopathist, , a yoga teacher you know, like, having people that all work in collaboration to support someone rather than them having to find all the different resources and, like, you know, all over a city [00:37:43] Charna Cassell: It makes so much more sense where people are actually communicating and collaborating to support an individual. [00:37:49] Charna Cassell: And I I noticed when I a talk to a couple's therapist. If I'm working with someone individually and I talk to their couple's therapist or vice versa, on a subconscious level. Something starts to shift for that client because they're just held. They're held in a different way because all the parents involved, so to speak, are communicating. You know? [00:38:11] Charna Cassell: And I think that that's something that we all lack often is that kind of communication holding from our our birth parents. You know? [00:38:18] Celeste Moore: yeah. Yeah. [00:38:19] Celeste Moore: Yeah. I've I've gone through that recently. I'm working on that. [00:38:25] Charna Cassell: A Yeah. [00:38:27] Celeste Moore: Mhmm. Yeah. [00:38:28] Celeste Moore: I had, like, very different communication growing up. My parents shut down. They were like when my parents got into an argument, and I was like, oh, they're not talking for a week. Oh, it was like the worst. My daughter really called me out. [00:38:42] Celeste Moore: I had I did this podcast a couple weeks ago when I'm I'm talking about trust. And 1 of the really hard things for me and as I'm, like, dating and as I'm going you know, I'm learning, I'm teaching, and then I'm doing my own self reflection [00:38:56] Celeste Moore: Because how can you not? And I realized that walls go up like you know? I mean, like, Fort Knox, not like just little walls. It's like, That's been there for a minute, ,Celeste. [00:39:07] Charna Cassell: a [00:39:07] Celeste Moore: So I've been working and working on that because it hasn't really served. When I'm trying to teach my daughter, right, when she's, you know, being sneaky and lying and the other you know, all these things, and I'm like, My reaction is was more intense than maybe someone that didn't have issues with trust. [00:39:28] Celeste Moore: So it was like But she said, mom, if you keep shutting down, like, this is how are we gonna communicate? Like and I was just like, oh my gosh. It was when it was really slapped in my face, and I was Oh, yeah. [00:39:41] Celeste Moore: This is not good. But this stemmed from my childhood, how my parents dealt with it. And most of us and I I wanna say most because there's very few people that didn't have some dysfunction or some trauma in their childhood. And our parents did the best they could with the knowledge that they had. And most of our parents, you know, especially different generations, It was not talked about. [00:40:05] Celeste Moore: It was not okay to see a therapist. It was you know, the list goes on and on and on. And as our generations are very okay with having help and talking and learning to communicate. And, Yeah. My parents, they they weren't role models for me in that sense, and that's okay. [00:40:25] Celeste Moore: But at least I know now, and, hopefully, that I can work on that so that that doesn't trickle to my next relationship. [00:40:33] Charna Cassell: Right. And so what you're noticing for yourself is that you're automatically even radically even though you may intellectually wanna respond differently, the walls go up and there's a withdrawal or stonewalling is what it's often called, where you just shut the other person out and and give them the silent treatment and don't communicate with them when you're upset. Is that [00:40:53] Charna Cassell: the [00:40:53] Celeste Moore: Beak yeah. It is. [00:40:54] Celeste Moore: And it's it's only because I was never taught how to speak [00:40:58] Charna Cassell: yeah. Sure. [00:40:59] Celeste Moore: that shutting down was, like, a protective mechanism. Right? And, yeah, that that doesn't work with me anymore. And that's not how I want people to communicate because it just it's just a that's a lot of difficult you know, it's a lot of issues there. [00:41:15] Celeste Moore: So I've really kind of [00:41:16] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. [00:41:17] Celeste Moore: worked on with therapists and books, and I'm and still in it. So I think I'll probably you know? And that's okay. I I get so much out of it. So [00:41:27] Charna Cassell: no. Absolutely. [00:41:27] Charna Cassell: I mean, what you're talking to is a universal experience, which is nervous system dysregulation. A and we all go through it, and we all have our different response. In 1 person, it's shut down when there's overwhelm, and 1 person has explode when there's overwhelm. A 1 person is clean when there's overwhelm you know? [00:41:46] Charna Cassell: Yeah. [00:41:47] , and I I love that obviously, you've created enough a trust with your kiddo that she could broach that topic and call you out, and then you actually heard her and you made a change and you're working on it a rather than, you know, dismissing her or her feeling like she has to perpetuate the cycle, which is withdraw too. Right? [00:42:07] Celeste Moore: Yeah. And, yeah, I'm so grateful that she was just like, this is not working, mom. [00:42:12] Charna Cassell: Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mhmm. [00:42:14] Celeste Moore: you know, it's it's any relationship. So, yeah, I'm grateful for that. [00:42:19] Celeste Moore: So yeah. [00:42:21] Charna Cassell: I'm gonna spin the lazy Susan back to dating and back to the men and your clients. So I'm wondering about how you go about helping build confidence and a sense of a personal desirability in these men that you're working with. [00:42:38] Celeste Moore: Yes. It's a great question because I think a lot of men don't know how to be sexy, to feel sexy, to feel desirable for whatever reason, whether it's been a long time, whether it was a lack of in the relationship. And so I start off by really asking questions on, like, what celebrity do you think is, you know, attractive or good looking or you know, if you could be someone, who who would you be? [00:43:09] Celeste Moore: And I know that's hard to say. Maybe 3 people. And why? You know? Oh, 0, they can speak well. [00:43:15] Celeste Moore: They're always charismatic. The girls are throwing themselves at at him. And so we kind of really break down what it is that they're looking for or wanting. And so I I do a color analysis on them, and I I really tell them what colors are best for their eyes, their hair, their skin tone, and even talk about the color psychology and what their power colors are, and Then we go through the whole wardrobe. I figure out what their style is. [00:43:47] Celeste Moore: A lot of people don't know what Their style is based on their personality, based on even where they live, on their hobbies. So I really want to elevate people. I'd never wanna take away their authenticity. And I think it's really important that people know that because when they come to see me, It's not I'm not trying to create some somebody else, and I'm not trying to dress you somebody else. I'm trying to show you the tools that you have to to elevate, to be your best self. [00:44:17] Celeste Moore: Like, how can you just be, like, 10 over the top 10, right, and feel it. And I think that comes with knowing what clothes properly fit, , and showing them the style. So I'm showing them the right colors, the right fit, and the right style. And when they're Just for example, they put on that first outfit. It's like it's like tan. [00:44:40] Celeste Moore: Right? When he's he's having them come out, and he says, how does this make you feel? How what do you think of when you look in the mirror? And so he kind of hones in a little bit more. Some people are like, oh my god. [00:44:53] Celeste Moore: I look really good. I look really sexy because what he's also doing is the ABCs. He's accentuating certain things. He's balancing most things, and he's camouflaging things that maybe they didn't have before. Maybe they have a little bit of a belly. [00:45:07] Celeste Moore: Right? So how does this guy dress so that he feels sexy even if his weight never changed, if that was an issue for him? We talk about health and wellness and mindfulness. And I also so I go through their closet and figure out, like, the pieces that are working, what's not. [00:45:26] Celeste Moore: Let's fill in the pieces. Let's shop. Let's get you those so that they can literally go into their closet and pick out an outfit without thinking about it because he knows, like, okay. This is the nighttime great restaurant type of, you know, very that kind of vibe or this is a great hiking, but without looking like a slob or you know, it's like just schlepping through with some crocs and a ripped T shirt. I'm like, yeah, he still wants to put his best foot forward. [00:45:54] Celeste Moore: And it's also about body language. It's about eye contact and handshakes and how to present yourself, how to speak, how to hold yourself to where,, this is this is part of the confidence building. And then also working on those things that maybe are holding them back. Right? [00:46:12] Celeste Moore: So we work on it outside in, and I say that because once their outside is kind of groomed. Right? I take them to get the right haircut. Maybe we talk we talk about grooming, like, if they have a [00:46:25] Celeste Moore: beard, how to just feel and own their sexiness, and then talking about the things that's It's holding them back from getting, you know, who it is that they they want in their lives. And so it's a like I said, it's a 3 month process. [00:46:40] Celeste Moore: Thus, I do have a 6 month as well for those guys that are just like, you know what? Just need some more coaching. I'm dating, but I I just wanna come back to you and kind of discuss what's going on and, you know, it really just depends on the client. also teaching them how to deal with rejection because that's a big 1. [00:46:57] Charna Cassell: mhmm. Being able to say no and hear someone's no and realize it's like a be able to hear it like, no. I don't want chicken sandwiches. I want a hamburger. [00:47:07] Charna Cassell: Like, hear it as neutral as that [00:47:09] Celeste Moore: That's a [00:47:10] Celeste Moore: good analogy. I like that 1. [00:47:13] Charna Cassell: people feel like it's like you're saying no to all of them. You know? Whether that you're in a relationship with them already or whether it's it's it's a really can be intense [00:47:22] Celeste Moore: Yeah. Because it's not about you. [00:47:25] Celeste Moore: It's about the person, and you don't know if they're just going through a messy The breakup, you don't know if they're you know, just you don't know what's going on with that person. So they're saying no for a reason. And Knowing that that's just a blessing because it is it is guiding you. It's it's a guidance tool. It's like getting you to the right person. [00:47:45] Celeste Moore: So, it's really teaching them about the nos and the right things to say or how to talk to a woman first. How do you You know, I'm at the grocery store, and, like, I see this woman, and she's so attractive. Like, what do I say to her without being creepy, without being Super awkward. You know, you might I had a actually, I had a guy at Whole Foods come to me and, you know, the Whole Foods is like, oh, this is that. And he says, you're really attractive. [00:48:12] Celeste Moore: Would you go on a date with me? And I was like, okay. Wow. That was a little much. And I was like, Thank you for for coming up to me and being brave. Like, that was amazing, but I'm gonna have to, you know, say no. And he just walked away, but I wasn't able to just like, you don't even have to get a reason if someone says no. But What I would say is, you know, if I'm in the bread aisle, like, oh, would you recommend I mean, just Play dumb. [00:48:42] Celeste Moore: Would you recommend, like, a great, like, whole grain bread? I'm sorry. I just I never bought bread before. I don't know. Like, you know, or, like, you know what? [00:48:50] Celeste Moore: Oh my god. Did you hear about that new restaurant that just opened up down the street? And There's just certain openers that you can talk. You might not be able to ask her out, but you might be able to at least practice. [00:49:02] Celeste Moore: So I think there's all different ways of of talking to people, and I give you them the tools and work on that. So that that's confidence building. [00:49:11] Charna Cassell: A Mhmm. Mhmm. [00:49:13] Charna Cassell: That's awesome. I've [00:49:15] Celeste Moore: that was a lot. [00:49:16] Charna Cassell: no. That was that was great. And, you know, it's it's funny that online dating as I've online dated, I've I've often had the thought, a god. I think it would be more fun to actually be coaching some of these like, responding to these guys and offering coaching instead of going on the dates themselves. [00:49:33] Celeste Moore: I know. [00:49:35] Celeste Moore: I redo dating profiles as [00:49:36] Celeste Moore: well. So [00:49:37] Celeste Moore: we talk about, like, pictures, number 1. Right? Can you say that, like, 80 percent of pictures are, like, mugshots [00:49:44] Celeste Moore: I I don't even know where they're coming from. So [00:49:47] Charna Cassell: Yeah. [00:49:49] Celeste Moore: that is like I won't even look at your your bio. I won't even look about what you want if your pictures are just, like, in the bathroom with your shirt up or, like, not smiling or you look like a serial killer. I'm sorry. I don't know. [00:50:03] Celeste Moore: All these men they have to put for either best foot forward. Right? And that's in the dating profile if they're online dating going over what they're saying. You know? So it's really kind of a whole makeover, a whole refresh start button to start this over and actually get it is what do they want. [00:50:23] Celeste Moore: You know? [00:50:24] Charna Cassell: I don't like to do the don't do this versus the do this, but but let's do the the don't do this list. Let's, like, a Throw some out there and then throw out some positives. [00:50:36] Celeste Moore: Okay. So [00:50:36] Celeste Moore: on pictures or dating profiles? [00:50:38] Charna Cassell: both. So so so photos, like, a no [00:50:44] Celeste Moore: Yes. No sunglasses. We wanna see your eyes. Please? [00:50:48] Celeste Moore: Okay. That's don't not smile. [00:50:51] Charna Cassell: Well well so show your so so teeth teeth, we wanna see your teeth. [00:50:58] Celeste Moore: Yeah. [00:50:58] Celeste Moore: We wanna know if you [00:51:00] Charna Cassell: wanna see your eyes. Do you have crazy eyes? [00:51:03] Charna Cassell: Do you make good eye contact? We a we preferably no dead animals. [00:51:09] Celeste Moore: Yes. Oh my god. That was my next 1. No fish that you've just caught, no dead animals that you hunted. [00:51:17] Celeste Moore: I mean, I I don't understand. I this is like [00:51:21] Charna Cassell: And you're in the south. A I mean, we would think that that would be, like I mean, it's abundant even here, but we would think, like, you get a you you yeah. A You've got a whole animal kingdom where [00:51:33] Celeste Moore: Yeah. So, that's fun. Yeah. [00:51:36] Celeste Moore: And don't Take pictures with your exes and then just just, like, do this little thing with their eyes. But, clearly, like, Her boobs are out. She's, like, on you. Like, pick a different picture. I don't wanna see children either. [00:51:53] Celeste Moore: Okay? Because it's creepy. I don't know who it is. I don't know if that's your child, your your niece, your nephew, or if you're a pedophile. Like, don't show children. [00:52:04] Celeste Moore: They shouldn't be on a dating app. Anyway, kids should not be on a dating app. [00:52:08] Charna Cassell: a you the thing is is I I wanna chime in that so I know that, like, with the animals, a I mean, that's it's it's trying to show, like, I can provide. We're starving in the woods. You won't go hungry. A and with the child, it's like, look at me. I've got a soft side. [00:52:23] Charna Cassell: I love the children, because often it's, like, not their kid. A and maybe they're an aspirational parent. You know? So it's like, what are the activities that that they enjoy? But [00:52:36] Charna Cassell: a Right. [00:52:36] Charna Cassell: It's just it's so it's a tricky 1, [00:52:38] Celeste Moore: yeah. And then also don't show the same like, if you love your dogs, like, great. [00:52:43] Celeste Moore: I love my dog. But I'm not gonna show every picture, Like, dog, dog, dog, dog, dog. I've seen that. There's so many. Yeah. Please know, like, naked pictures or, like, you're lifting up your shirt on every picture. No bathroom selfies. [00:52:57] Celeste Moore: Those are terrible. [00:52:59] Charna Cassell: Gym selfies. [00:53:00] Celeste Moore: Yeah. Or the gym selfie. Like, okay. We'll know by you wearing the right outfit that you take care of your body. [00:53:06] Celeste Moore: You know? And it's okay to say that you enjoy you know, you're active. And it show it's okay to show you, like, wakeboarding or or snowboarding or doing an activity like that, but when you're just showing off muscles or parts of there's this guy who just showed off his legs. Like, he had really crazy, like, bodybuilding legs, but all he did, every picture was of his legs. And I'm like, Oh my god. [00:53:29] Celeste Moore: What does your face look like? Do you have any other personality behind the legs? I don't know. Like, It's hard for me not to giggle, and it's hard for me not to, like I really wanna help, but it's sometimes it's like, oh, I don't know what goes through their head. [00:53:44] Celeste Moore: , and the writing. Okay. So let's get off the pictures, but, like, you don't wanna go into You do not wanna go into a profile saying what you do not want. That just makes you sound so negative. [00:53:55] Charna Cassell: right. Like, what we just did, guys, don't do that. Don't say don't. [00:53:59] Celeste Moore: Yes. [00:53:59] Celeste Moore: Don't say don't. So don't hit me up if you're not like this or not like or, like, you know, people that have been dating for a while, and they're like, well, I don't want this. And I'm like, okay. But what do you want? Like, I don't I don't wanna hear negativity. [00:54:15] Celeste Moore: No no woman does. We also want to hear about you. We wanna know emotional, physical, and a little bit of spiritual if if you are, like, where are you growing in this world? What are you doing for yourself to to grow? And it's like, okay. [00:54:30] Celeste Moore: I like to work out, and I hope you're hot or something. You know? Like and don't say anything sexual, like, right away. It just makes you look like a creep and and or that you just wanna hook up. So there's just so much. [00:54:44] Charna Cassell: and if you do if that's what you want, then then more power to you. There are specifically websites better for that. But, you know, when you're wanting to engage someone, it's a really great thing to not only answer what the person is asking, but share something about yourself and ask a follow-up question. Because if you don't, it kind of shuts it down. And I know that for myself, I've even used that. [00:55:08] Charna Cassell: Like I if I'm not interested and someone has randomly written to me and I'm being polite and responding, I won't further the conversation. So I might make the assumption that if there's someone that I'm writing to and that's how they interact with me and they don't a they don't they're not curious. A lack of curiosity, everything's dead in the water at that point for me. [00:55:30] Celeste Moore: Well, it shows that the person doesn't have any gusto. [00:55:35] Celeste Moore: Right? He doesn't have the the chase. And and there has to be a little bit of a chase. There has to be a little bit of, like, okay. If there's just like you said okay. [00:55:44] Celeste Moore: No. Thank you. Well, I would love to, you know, know what it is or what it whatever whatever that quite follow-up question is, but it shows, like, you shut it down. Okay. You're not worth fighting. [00:55:54] Celeste Moore: You're not gonna fight for me. You're not going to it says so much about a possibility of that person, what they're gonna be like in the relationship. [00:56:01] Charna Cassell: Mhmm. Mhmm. [00:56:02] Celeste Moore: And the just really quick, I just wanna notice or say 2 things. There's a lot of line on profiles. A lot of line on the men's side, it's height, and it is [00:56:17] Charna Cassell: A Age. [00:56:18] Celeste Moore: Age. [00:56:18] Celeste Moore: Yes. Thank you. I don't know why I [00:56:20] Charna Cassell: a [00:56:21] Celeste Moore: Age and height. No. [00:56:22] Celeste Moore: You know. And it's like, just be honest and open because that allows me to make a decision of if that's what I'm looking for, vice versa. And I know women, some women I've known that lie about their their weight. And and I know that can be a sticky situation, but most guys don't care about that. Most guys just want you to be comfortable in your own skin, in in your own body. [00:56:50] Celeste Moore: And, you know, we've all like I said, our bodies change and constantly. And Put recent photos. Recent photos is really important. I don't wanna know what you looked like 20 years ago. I don't care Because that's weird. [00:57:04] Celeste Moore: Like, what was it are you this person? Are you that person? Like and it's it can be very deceiving. So when you actually meet person, and they're 10 years older, and they've aged. And it's like, oh, why they waste my [00:57:16] Charna Cassell: a [00:57:17] Celeste Moore: So just be open and honest And let that person decide if that's who they wanna be [00:57:22] Charna Cassell: Yeah. [00:57:23] Charna Cassell: Yeah. A It's so hard. There's so much insecurity that shows up via that kind of deception. [00:57:30] Celeste Moore: Yeah. [00:57:31] Charna Cassell: As we wrap up, is there anything else that you want our listeners to know, and how can they find you? [00:57:37] Celeste Moore: Yeah. Thanks for for asking. You know, I I really just want people to be confident, happy, authentic, and really find that Partner or partners. [00:57:51] Celeste Moore: Like, I've I've said partner a lot, but that doesn't always work. Whatever works for you, just being honest about it And can you and finding a way to communicate is really, like, all that is what we're looking for as a woman. You know? We just really want that guy to to check off those boxes. So just be who you are. [00:58:11] Celeste Moore: And I also have a podcast, the Down and Dirty podcast. And, you know, we talk about things that maybe not always down and dirty. And I don't mean, And, like, we talk about sex. We do relationships. You know, I've had a all different types of people on my show. But I hope that you can at least listen and and you definitely will learn some things from my guests, um, people can find me at my website at Celeste Moore, m o 0 r e dot com. [00:58:38] Celeste Moore: And Instagram is at Celeste Moore Image. LinkedIn, Celeste Moore. I think I'm on TikTok too. I'm like, you know, that's like I don't know. That's just just a little bit out of my generation, but maybe not. [00:58:50] Celeste Moore: I don't know. At Celeste Moore Image. So, you for having me on. I know I talked about a lot of stuff and went all over the place, but, you know, that's That's how we do it. Right? [00:59:00] Charna Cassell: we were going off trail. [00:59:02] Celeste Moore: That's awesome. Thank you for having me [00:59:04] Charna Cassell: thank thank you. [00:59:06] Charna Cassell: In preparation and I know this is a Shay. But this idea of, like, if you don't love yourself, then how is somebody else going to love and treat you with the kind of respect and care that you want them to there really is something to that in terms of developing a level of continuity and consistency with yourself. And I found that through practice and through meditation and different forms of self care. [00:59:38] Charna Cassell: And so I wanna offer you, , a meditation. So some of us did not many of us did not grow up with, , caretakers that did a perfect job or that attended to our needs or even protected us when we needed them to. And so reparenting is something that I talk about in a number of the podcasts and internal family systems. The book, no bad parts is a good resource out there. And this is a practice that came up in the middle of a session with a client, I just kind of generated this. [01:00:14] Charna Cassell: And so hopefully, you will find it to be useful. This is a visualization. Not everyone sees things in their mind's eye and that's okay. You can still follow along. The principle here is energy follows attention and intention. [01:00:31] Charna Cassell: You're training your ability to focus, conduct, and direct your attention. Start by coming into present time by calling all of your energy back to you from wherever you have left it or from whomever you've left it with. If you find your thoughts compulsively being pulled into the past or the future, this can be done more frequently. Repetition helps you build the muscle or rather the focus and neural pathways to do this instantly. Remember how many times you repeated something to form a habit. [01:01:05] Charna Cassell: Now let all that energy you call back form a semi permeable bubble of protection around you and arms length out, side to side, front to back, below your feet, and above your head. It allows in whatever is to nourishing, and you release and let go of anything that no longer serves you or doesn't belong to you. Recall a moment in time where you felt abandoned or needed more presence and care from another than you were offered. Maybe it's a parent or a partner. As you recall it, what does it feel like in your body? [01:01:44] Charna Cassell: Does it get tight? Is it hard to breathe? Does the bottom part of your body disappear? Can you still feel your low belly and legs? What is the opposite of abandonment? [01:01:58] Charna Cassell: What would be the antidote? Is it acceptance and love? What color is that feeling? Trust whatever arises. Let this color waterfall in through the top of your head and saturate any parts of you that feel unaccepted or unloved. [01:02:22] Charna Cassell: See your cells absorbing as much of it as you need. Use deep breaths to breathe it in. Take as long as you need. Picture someone you feel cared for or protected by sitting next to you as close or as far away as you need them to be. If no 1 comes to mind, imagine I'm there with you, or it could be even a beloved pet or a tree. [01:02:56] Charna Cassell: Whoever or whatever that being is, you are not alone. How does that feel? How much of that can you allow yourself to feel and stay present with? Allow however much that is to be okay. Maybe it's only 5 percent. [01:03:21] Charna Cassell: That's okay. The more you do this, notice if the percent increases. But really the key here is to just be with what is. [01:03:33] Charna Cassell: If you've found this podcast helpful, share it with anyone you can, any way you can. [01:03:41] Charna Cassell: Please rate, review, and share it with friends so others can find our community of healing. You can also follow me at Late Open Podcast on Instagram and Facebook, and read more about my You can also sign up for my newsletter to stay informed. This has been Laid Open Podcast with your host, Charna Cassell. Until next time, may this podcast connect you to new resources and empower you to heal yourself.

Show Notes Aline Ra M Episode
[00:00:00] Charna Cassell: Welcome back to Late Open Podcast. During my hiatus from recording , I’ve been building an online course on how to live the passionate, pleasure filled, peaceful life you want, reduce self sabotaging behavior, and gain control over your nervous system. [00:00:14] Charna Cassell: Creating courses for people around the world to understand the impact of trauma on their nervous system and relationships, and how they can heal is something I’ve wanted to do for over a decade. I’m thrilled it’s finally happening. I’ll keep you posted as to when it’s launching. For now, you can also sign up for my newsletter, read my blog, or send questions to be answered at charnacassell.[00:00:38] Charna Cassell: com. Today’s guest is Aileen Rah Em. She’s a spiritual guide, energy healer, teacher, and writer, and her mission is to establish solid foundations for spiritual growth and soul fulfillment. Welcome, Aileen.[00:00:53] [00:01:38] Aline Ra M: Thank you so much for having me, China. Happy to talk to you today.[00:01:43] Charna Cassell: Yeah, I’ve been looking forward to this conversation. And I feel like it’s a important one regarding people understanding what You know, like, I don’t want to, I don’t want to take anything for granted, right? Like, I may know what a spiritual guide is, but I want people who’ve never heard of that or don’t necessarily comprehend what that could be to get it.[00:02:07] Charna Cassell: And so if we could even just start with that, like a basic description of when you call yourself a spiritual guide, what that means to you, because there’s so many flavors out there.[00:02:20] Aline Ra M: Yes, there’s so many different sides of it. It’s as I see it, the main role of the spiritual guide is to help release people from suffering. Now, when we actually go through what that means, we have so many different angles that we could approach that through. I could also say that my job is to help people stay on their path.[00:02:40] Aline Ra M: Or my job is to inspire and motivate people to keep going because it can be a hard path spiritual growth. I could also say that my job is to give people the right practices, the right things for their challenges. For their blockages, because the spiritual guide can assess people’s energy feud and see exactly what they need.[00:03:02] Aline Ra M: So they don’t do random practices that they just read in a book or saw in a YouTube channel that can actually harm them instead of helping them. So I could say all those things, but the core is really to help release people from suffering.[00:03:15] Aline Ra M: This is what all those things, all these different angles. Are doing and it even brings the question of where does suffering come from and we can talk about ego and delusions and desires that are so tied with spiritual growth, which is what I love, but I understand that for some people that can be so abstract.[00:03:37] Aline Ra M: And so far away.
[00:03:38] Aline Ra M: We can talk about helping people stay in their path because it is so easy to get distracted, to have shiny objects, to be afraid and to get out of our path. If we look around us, most people around us are not living in joy. They’re not living their purpose. It is easier to stay out of our path than to stay in our path.[00:04:01] Aline Ra M: The spiritual guide is a person who will help you to stay in your path.[00:04:06] Charna Cassell: And so somebody could ask, well, what does that mean? How would you even know if you were on your path or off your path? So,[00:04:15] Aline Ra M: We know energetically by feeling and by seeing what is happening in a person’s energy field, if the energy field is aligned, if it’s harmonized, what kind of blockages are presenting themselves there. When we have too many blockages, it’s almost impossible to leave our purpose and we need to clear them in order to simply be able to walk our path. [00:04:39] Charna Cassell: I hear what you’re saying but that it may not be as concrete for people. And so an example of here, you know, could be something like, that you’re really attached to staying with this particular person because you don’t want to get a divorce and the stigma that goes along with divorce.[00:04:55] Charna Cassell: And, but then there’s crisis after crisis. You could even be having physical healing crises when you stay in this particular relationship and that may not be part of what you’re aligned with and be on your path. And so to release that and to step away from a certain thing that you’ve been so attached to could actually mean you’re stepping onto your path.[00:05:18] Charna Cassell: Is that an example?[00:05:19] Aline Ra M: could be one thing. And it’s linked to the idea of suffering or simply struggling. Normally when we struggle, we are not in our path. We are struggling against. Our path, because we are not allowing ourselves to accept something. So every time we’re struggling with life, we are out of alignment. And I like to say the life is challenging. We need challenges to grow. So it’s not like sunflowers and rainbows not supposed to be because growth requires us to get out of our comfort zone, but challenge and struggle is. Very different things. We’re not here to hustle, [00:05:57] Aline Ra M: We’re here to thrive by overcoming our challenges. So we can see the energy of struggling, like struggling with our work, struggling with stress, struggling with frustration. All of those signs is that we are fighting with ourselves, we’re struggling with ourselves.00:06:15] Charna Cassell: Right.[00:06:16] Aline Ra M: Yeah.[00:06:16] Charna Cassell: And can you share some about how you came to this path, like some about, concretely about the challenges that you encountered that you overcame that helped you be clear about your path?[00:06:29] Aline Ra M: So I had two main moments in my life that brought me to this path in very different ways. The first one was when I was just a teenager, I was 12, I started being able to hear voices. I started being able to hear things that were not there. And that just was a natural opening. And it was scary.[00:06:49] Aline Ra M: And at the same time, it took me to have curiosity. So that’s how it started. I had a natural opening that Asked me to be able to protect myself because it was not that easy to manage. And it was a not nice things that was happening. It’s not like I was seeing an angel, quite the opposite. So I was like, okay, I need to be able to take care of myself. And the second side is because I had this opening, I had this awareness that was something more. I knew I was not crazy. And then came the question, what the hell is this place? What the hell is this that I’m going through that nobody can see. And they know it’s very real. And that took me to a path of spirituality based on mysticism and occultism of understanding energy, understanding what kinds of energy were there.[00:07:38] Aline Ra M: And it was purely from this point of view. What are these different layers of existence? What is this place? How do I work with energy? How do I do rituals? How do I protect myself? It had nothing to do with personal development. Absolutely zero. So when I was a teenager, what happened is that I joined my first mystery school.[00:07:58] Aline Ra M: So I joined back then the Rosicrucian order. And a few years later I joined Gnosis. So I’ve been on a path, mystery schools, initiation based for a long time, but I never cared about it in terms of personal development and my joy. I was just fascinated by the magical aspect of it.[00:08:17] Aline Ra M: And it was in my late thirties.[00:08:19] Aline Ra M: That I started having a series of breakdowns of seriously hating my life and that took me first to Buddhism. And that started clicking so many things inside of me. Because in a way I already had all the energy from my previous experiences. I just had never put it in such an angle. So when came like this personal development part that I just needed to fix my life.[00:08:47] Aline Ra M: Then it all clicked together and all made sense.[00:08:50] Charna Cassell: You got to apply all the tools that you had been developing.[00:08:54] Aline Ra M: Yeah,[00:08:55] Charna Cassell: Can I ask, so when you were 12 and you were starting to have these experiences that felt scary and new did you have other adults or resources in your life that you could turn to?[00:09:08] Aline Ra M: not directly not in my own place. My, my parents are both scientists. They don’t believe in anything like that. So they don’t know up until now, they don’t really know what happened. I, it was always so clear in me that I couldn’t tell them that it wouldn’t be safe [00:09:25] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Mm hmm. [00:09:27] Aline Ra M: not saying that my parents are bad people.[00:09:29] Aline Ra M: It’s just, they would do what they could in the best reasoning in their loving way is just that would be mostly taking me to medication, which is not what I needed. And they knew even then, back then, my intuition was always very clear on that. At the same time, I was lucky to born and raised in an island in Brazil, where there are many mystery schools.[00:09:53] Aline Ra M: They are hidden. Most of my friends, if I talk to them even up to today, they don’t know about it, but they exist. And so what happened I knew I was supposed to be in a school. I always knew that. I just didn’t know which one. The one back then that I saw everywhere was like Freemasons.[00:10:11] Aline Ra M: I had so many friends being initiated as Freemasons back then, but then it’s only for boys. And I was like, I know there’s something for me. I know it exists, but I don’t know when. And I was having this conversation with like a group of friends. And one of the girls that I barely knew up to then, she looked at me and said, you know, my mom is seeing one of them.[00:10:30] Aline Ra M: I can just ask her and you can join her. And so that is how it happened.[00:10:35] Charna Cassell: Oh, how amazing.[00:10:36] Aline Ra M: I ended up having that support because when I joined then many things started changing.[00:10:41] Charna Cassell: Yeah, it’s so important that piece of having, you know, first of all, like getting to be seen[00:10:48] Aline Ra M: Yeah.[00:10:49] Charna Cassell: and having that mutual understanding and having somebody guide you and then you’re now serving as that guide for people who may not understand what’s happening for them. also really curious, I see.[00:11:00] Charna Cassell: trauma often as a gateway to spiritual awakening and opening and that people who’ve experienced different kinds of trauma there can be this I see it as you Don’t have the direct resource in your family system to be protected or safe, and that often there, it opens this other realm or access to non consensual reality.[00:11:25] Charna Cassell: And I’m curious if that if you relate to that, and if that is part of your story at all in terms of what you think if you look back and go. What contributed to the development or the capacity that I had to see things that other people couldn’t see. Do you have an understanding of that?[00:11:44] Aline Ra M: Well, at the same time, I think some of us actually came for that and that something had to happen for that to open. I don’t see like necessarily that there was a setting that allowed that opening as much as I was supposed to have that opening. And at the same time, the listening to the voices were extremely traumatic for me, caused me to have a lot of insomnia early in my life, even after that was healed, my nervous system took forever to be able to sleep well.[00:12:13] Aline Ra M: So that was very strong in me. So for a long time, I could curse that. I hated those voices. I hated insomnia. But at the same time, it led me to see there was something there. It did its purpose of taking me to my path. So that is more what I see, that those events, especially early in age, have a role.[00:12:35] Aline Ra M: Of taking us to our path because we can always ignore them and it often happens that children when they’re very young. They have this opening and they shut it down in my case. I was lucky to have that in an age that I couldn’t really shut it down. It’s like you’re already 12 to 3. There’s nothing you can do.[00:12:55] Aline Ra M: You’re going to remember this. [00:12:57] Charna Cassell: Right. Yeah, that kids at certain ages may have experiences that they then just don’t even have recollection of [00:13:05] Charna Cassell: that opening. [00:13:06] Aline Ra M: At the same time, it’s like it’s a realm that we don’t fully understand even if we studied so much, even if we’re fully in it, it is full of mysteries. And then for me, I don’t even understand up to now if there was something palpable and concrete that triggered that event, or was that event supposed to happen to be able to open me to my path?[00:13:30] Aline Ra M: I don’t [00:13:31] Aline Ra M: know. I don’t know. Like it’s chicken and eggs. I really don’t know.
[00:13:34] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I was asking. It’s just the sense of like, there are things that make the veil thinner for some people. And often I see that trauma is that. And that what I’m hearing from you is that the actual opening was traumatic and it was hard to integrate and you, your nervous system had to recover from not understanding and being so afraid.[00:13:54] Charna Cassell: And lack of sleep alone is a huge upheaval in people’s lives. And you know, can be so dysregulating, but that there, it wasn’t something specific. There was no precipitating event that, that, you know, led up to this moment.[00:14:11] Aline Ra M: And it is true that some people can go through some trauma that cause openings, like for instance astral traveling that many people report having near death experiences. But sometimes we also have to understand this certain spiritual events when caused by accidents. actually are accidents. They don’t necessarily happen in a good way, that keeps the integrity of the etheric body.[00:14:39] Aline Ra M: Sometimes having those random openings that were caused by accidents and are forceful actually creates trauma in the energetic field as well, and that person will need energy healing. Because that was not the natural connection. That was not a sustainable path. It was a blitz in the matrix, so to say.[00:15:03] Aline Ra M: And that creates fractures that need to be repaired.[00:15:07] Charna Cassell: And is that something that you help people with?[00:15:10] Aline Ra M: Yes, as well, yeah.[00:15:11] Aline Ra M: So it’s very different as well. If we talk about activations and Kundalini activations and things like that, it’s very different. A person who has been on the path of yoga and purification and releasing formigo and creating a container that is sustainable, that can sustain the energy. Who has a strong nervous system to deal with that with somebody who has like one specific event that has an activation, you know, goes to one specific ritual, it can break them apart, it can be too much for them because they don’t have what it takes to sustain that.[00:15:45] Aline Ra M: So I’m more as a spiritual guide, I prefer working with things that are self sustained than direct connections. Which requires us to prepare ourselves to hold that. So it can be a lot of work, but it’s a work that we can sustain throughout our lives.[00:16:03] Charna Cassell: Right. Right. What that brings up for me is thinking about the difference between. Slow regular practice and listening to your own pace, because even Kundalini awakenings can just shatter people. I mean, it’s very disruptive if your system can’t hold the amount of energy that you’ve suddenly conjured.[00:16:21] Charna Cassell: And then it has me think about you know, medicine work is so popular now. Right. It’s at least in the Bay Area. It’s everywhere. And That there are these very intense experiences that, you know, some people in order to create a crack in the ego, they may need a more intense experience, but to assume that everyone needs the same thing.[00:16:43] Charna Cassell: And then what’s the integration process afterwards? And also like the sustained change, right? You’re talking about sustainable change.
[00:16:53] Aline Ra M: Yes, a sustainable change that we can hold ourselves because we are divine. We don’t need intermediaries. We can have people’s help to show certain keys to activate things in us, but we need to be able to hold that we are the container. We are the vessel. So in my way of seeing it, it’s not exactly spiritual growth if we are having like just outsourcing the channel, you know, we are the channel.[00:17:21] Aline Ra M: And I understand as well that many spiritual. Experiences that are extremely powerful in extremely high vibration are not necessarily a drama in terms of excessive energy. And some people are so desensitized that they need an experience that throws them off.[00:17:43] Charna Cassell: right.[00:17:44] Aline Ra M: You know, I mean, the more sensitive you are, like spirit is everywhere, energy is moving all the time. I don’t know how it is for you, but like, get me to sleep in bed, and I’m going to have all kinds of energy flowing with me, like, in one second, I don’t need to do anything. And I’m not saying this to brag, I’m just saying, this is what happens when we are channels, we all can do that, but we need to cultivate that, we need to clear ourselves for that.[00:18:08] Aline Ra M: And looking for shortcuts, of course, if you have never had any contact with this spirituality before, it could be good just to show you it exists, you know? Just to motivate you, inspire you to walk on the path. But that in itself is not a self sustainable path. It is not the connection creating your channel.[00:18:31] Aline Ra M: It is quite the opposite. It can actually burn your channel, making it even harder to create a self sustained connection, because it’s a crazy amount of fire inside of a person who cannot sustain that. So it can actually burn your fuses, making it much harder to create a self sustained connection with the divine.[00:18:53] Charna Cassell: Yeah, and I think one of the things that you said that’s really important is the desensitization that can happen in so many circumstances, right? So whether it’s that you live in a culture where there’s sugar in everything you eat, and then your, taste buds get desensitized to sweetness, or, you know, I worked at a a co op, a worker owned sex toy store and we did a lot of sex education and there’d be porn playing in the back room while we’re eating sandwiches at lunch.[00:19:22] Charna Cassell: And so it’s like these things that you just like, you just get really desensitized to talking about certain things or seeing certain things or and then in terms of, you know, drugs. Or, you know, other sources taking something in, like what you’re referring to is, you know, you can nature in itself, you don’t need to even be on something, but like nature in itself can be the magic can be.[00:19:45] Charna Cassell: There, you can see the energy and have a spiritual experience using your own body, like cleaning your system out very, you know, historically speaking, like fasting and depriving yourself of like, you know, media so that you’re just creating an open space for what is to actually speak to you and communicate with you rather than filling your mind and filling your belly and filling everything so that spirit can’t get in [00:20:14] Aline Ra M: Absolutely. You’re absolutely right. I mean, we’re in a society that is so addicted to busyness, to doing things. And then when people want to connect with the divine, they just add stuff to their list. Go to the ceremony, do this, do that. But in reality, we are all naturally connected. It is more about stop doing the things that are disconnecting us.[00:20:36] Aline Ra M: So it is more about letting go. Letting go of the news. Letting go of foods. Like foods drastically disconnect us if we don’t eat well. So just eating well makes a huge difference in this work. Because your vessel is going to be clean for the connection. So treating our bodies as our temples, doing less, paying more attention, listening more.[00:21:02] Aline Ra M: Everything is relationships. The spirit is constantly communicating with us and so are the elements. So our ability to listen is crucial, but we cannot listen if we’re always busy, doesn’t work.[00:21:16] Charna Cassell: And the people that find you, do you feel like the people that end up finding you, they’re already on a path or they’re at the beginning? Like who are the people that you tend to work with most?[00:21:27] Aline Ra M: I work with different types of people. Some people were really on the path. They just never had like a guide with somebody giving the practices, but they being very serious about their practices in their own way. But I also work a lot with people. They’re just beginning in their path. And I do have clients.[00:21:43] Aline Ra M: For instance, I have exactly the setting that we were just talking about that. Try it out a few different, went to ayahuasca or mushroom ceremonies a few times and got curious and think that they already know quite a bit So I have one program focusing on people who haven’t had a consistent spiritual practice yet For they to create the first blocks of foundations for their practice.[00:22:09] Charna Cassell: And you’re tuning in and specifically creating practices for their system and them because, you know, one person needs to learn how to root down and connect into the earth. Another person needs to learn how to connect up and so on. [00:22:24] Aline Ra M: In one of the programs. Yes. One of my programs would do exactly that in my other program for people who are just beginning. I have a more standard practices that I give all of them. So they understand how certain energetic mechanisms work. and have a toolbox to help them. So when they are panicking, they know what to do, when they need to relax, they know what to do, they understand what purification is, and they can see the ego, which is the most important part for me, to make sure that people who are just beginning can understand what the hell ego even means in practice, because they can see How they are fighting with themselves all the time.[00:23:05] Aline Ra M: And I know that for some people that doesn’t sound interesting at all when they say, but and that’s not how I market the program as well. It is about connection, likeness, and clarity a hundred percent. But it has an effect as well of allowing the person to understand what is out of place. naturally by doing the practices.[00:23:25] Aline Ra M: And from that moment onwards, when they can see what the ego is, then we can do the real stuff.[00:23:32] Charna Cassell: Can you give an example of some of the things that are in your program that help guide someone to be able to be separate enough to be able to see ego and conceive of that?[00:23:46] Aline Ra M: This program is about setting solid foundations for spiritual development and bringing your likeness connection and clarity because this, it absolutely does. So you will be feeling lighter, more connected and clear. So in a way you will get clarity of like, normally people start because they want to have more clarity of what they want, their purpose, their direction, and they will definitely get that.[00:24:16] Aline Ra M: It gets those tangible aspects that people are looking for. It is just that the way it does it, it’s just by showing what is not okay. And so, for instance, many people on this program actually start realizing how much control issues they have. We all think we understand our control issues, but they are so much, like, like, bigger than we think.[00:24:38] Aline Ra M: They hide in so many small things all the time, and control is based on fear. The moment that we can see how we are so scared, everything changes because we just want to get rid of that fear. We don’t want to keep going with that fear, but it’s something that I can talk to people about it. but It doesn’t sound as strong as when you actually feel it, the program allows people to feel it.[00:25:01] Aline Ra M: And that’s when the key turns of what the, like, we always talk about authenticity, like to live our lives fully to be our authentic selves. We all want that. But not necessarily understand what it means there are certain things that we have to be put on the spot ourselves to see how we actually don’t feel safe being ourselves. [00:25:24] Charna Cassell: I mean, I feel like what a spiritual journey is about full self acceptance. know, to be able to move through all the, I’m too much, I’m not enough, I’m not worthy, et cetera and all the ways those stories play out in your family or response to culture or response to religion [00:25:43] Aline Ra M: yeah. That’s a beautiful place to begin if we can. Accept ourselves and acknowledge what we want that we have a beautiful path ahead of us to walk without shame with self love because at the end of the day, self love is the core of every type of growth, be it spiritual growth, be it personal development, be it empowerment.[00:26:08] Aline Ra M: It comes from this place of loving ourselves so much that how could we possibly shut ourselves down. [00:26:13] Charna Cassell: Right, right. And so much of the shutting down and that’s what a lot of my work is about with people is is helping them not shut those places down, not kink the hoses to allow everything to flow through them. But yes, people do shut those things down in order to be acceptable, in order to be palatable, in order to be safe, you know, in, in the process of trying to get love, right?[00:26:36] Charna Cassell: And not get kicked out of the herd.[00:26:39] Aline Ra M: Yeah. And if we can realize that, then it’s great. If we can see that’s what we’re doing, that’s a huge step.[00:26:46] Charna Cassell: And you pointed to this, which is, you know, we can talk about it but to be in the practice is a different thing because until you have that visceral experience, it’s really hard to trust or believe. And then once you have those visceral experiences, which come from practice, then it’s replicable, right?[00:27:07] Charna Cassell: And then it becomes self sustaining versus like some one off mystical. experience or something you’ve read and you conceptually agree with but don’t know how to actually apply.[00:27:20] Aline Ra M: Yeah. Absolutely. Spirituality is so much about liberation as Liberating ourselves from ourselves so that we can be releasing from anything that is not allowing us to accept, to embrace who we are.[00:27:34] Charna Cassell: Right. Right. That’s , also another big piece of the work that I do with people it’s a microcosm. I always, people come to me to work around sexuality a lot, but Your sexual self expression is a microcosm for other parts of your life. And so if you’re shutting a certain thing down, how can it not impact your sexual self expression?[00:27:52] Charna Cassell: And so like, what do you see with people around when they’ve liberated certain things in your program? gIven that sexual trauma is actually so frequent and it’s so common, what have you seen with people you’ve worked with around that?[00:28:09] Aline Ra M: About sexual trauma or[00:28:10] Charna Cassell: Around liberation from, right? In the process Of healing spiritually, how that then can impact your sexual self expression and freedom in that area.[00:28:23] Aline Ra M: I Mean, sexual energy is. completely necessary for any kind of energy work, but sometimes we just don’t realize that. What I see most with my clients is to switch to calmness, to acceptance in terms of patience.[00:28:37] Aline Ra M: That it’s okay. Everything is okay. And focus on what I would like, not focus on what is not okay, on, on the worries and on the problems and on repeating the same self talk that is based on hate and judgment. It’s fine. I see things for what they are.[00:28:58] Aline Ra M: There is no drama,[00:29:00] Aline Ra M: We live in a society that is always Like the emotional reaction like it’s endless reactive emotionally, you know, and people think that this is like being alive and normal. They sometimes people think that people that are a bit impartial and like are kind of distanced and cold. But for me, that is like the purest expression of love. Love that is consciousness. Love that has a big picture and sees the whole thing,[00:29:29] Aline Ra M: Reacting to a small event all the time. [00:29:33] Aline Ra M: Well, it’s coming to this place of awareness.[00:29:36] Charna Cassell: And having more neutrality or equanimity and not personalizing things so much, right? Like that[00:29:45] Charna Cassell: piece. [00:29:46] Aline Ra M: And I’m not overreacting on things. Not as like, this happens, this is good. That happens. This is bad. You know, it’s it is what it is.[00:29:55] Aline Ra M: Then if I can see reality for what it is without judgments, then I can decide how to act on it, to go towards the direction that I want it to go. Not in a manipulative way, but in a neutral way, because we all have powers over all the energies that are around us.[00:30:13] Aline Ra M: And so it’s just understanding our powers and the comparison of our powers with the powers of the universe. We are God. And so we can start acting as such instead of victimizing ourselves or losing our temper or any of other things that happens so easily.[00:30:31] Charna Cassell: When you’re working with someone who’s had a lot of trauma, do you, do, first of all, I guess that’s the first question, do those clients come to you? And if so Shifting out of a victim’s story into being able to, you know, unwind that and see that as an archetype that they’re learning from is its own process.[00:30:56] Charna Cassell: And so I’m curious about your approach[00:30:58] Charna Cassell: there. [00:31:00] Aline Ra M: So, I mean, we all have trauma, not big traumas, of course, they’re big traumas, there’s no traumas, but we all have traumas. I Wouldn’t say that people necessarily come to me for trauma. I’m not like a trauma specialist. That is not what I focus on, but at the same time, what is blocking us?[00:31:18] Aline Ra M: from connection is trauma. So we are always, that is what we’re purifying at the end of the day. The way that I work with people, it’s not like I’m not a therapist, I’m not a psychologist, so I’m not going to talk to people about their trauma. Of course they’re open to share. I’ll be more scanning their energy to understand where it is for what it needs, what is influencing, what kind of practice he needs.[00:31:42] Aline Ra M: My work is. A lot based on practices. I give the people the practices that they need to do to shift the energy so I don’t go through the mind. The mind is not my path. I explain things. I talk to people about things so they understand how energy works because I don’t also don’t want them just to do the practice but not understand what is it that we’re doing.[00:32:04] Aline Ra M: It’s important for me that they have like an understanding even to have a good understanding because there’s so much naivety about how energy works. So to help them create that awareness of what this planet really is. But that’s sad. I don’t stay on the mental level. I don’t try to fix trauma.[00:32:24] Aline Ra M: talking. And most of my clients are actually online. I have some clients in person, some online, a healing sessions online and in person. So even with my online clients, I won’t be just talking. I will be transferring energy. I will be explaining to them their practices. And of course we will talk, but not as a therapist, not to try to solve the problem, just to understand energetically.[00:32:54] Aline Ra M: What is happening?[00:32:58] Charna Cassell: And is there a particular practice that you’d like to lead our listeners through?[00:33:06] Aline Ra M: Oh, I didn’t think about that. I love, there’s a very simple practice that I love and for some people they will say this is not spirituality, but it is in so many different levels, which is [00:33:19] Charna Cassell: Right. [00:33:20] Aline Ra M: So if you close your eyes and just put yourself very lightly with your fingertips around your body.[00:33:27] Aline Ra M: When I’m saying this, that this has so many different benefits. It’s. Suffering to your nervous system, which is so necessary for spiritual growth. The more we grow on this path, the more energy starts going through us. And we need to be able to handle that energy. So, self touch, very light touch with your fingertips. Going through any part of your body. You can go through your face, chest, your legs. Handling with you as you’re listening to my voice. xploring your body for any sensation. Calming yourself. This is beautiful to do in bed. If you’re having trouble falling asleep, just calming. A good five minutes of this at night before you go to bed is and it can also be used in the morning as you come out of bed for self connection, for greeting yourself before beginning the day, coming to yourself. One other reason that I love this practice is that touch is the sense of the heart. Each chakra is connected to a sense. And by stimulating your skin, you also get to clear your heart and bring more lightness into your heart. So for me, this is a practice. Yeah, it works with the heart. It works with the nervous system.[00:35:11] Aline Ra M: It is soothing. It will allow more energy to flow through you because it is soothing to the nervous system. So it has so many benefits. The spiritual practices can be a seat for one hour. Doing a specific thing in meditation, but they can also be light and playful and joyful and exploratory.[00:35:32] Charna Cassell: That’s super important, Swede, and I know you have a book, Bullshit Free Mindfulness, and that you have a bunch of different kinds of practices in there that can be done rather quickly, and that it doesn’t have to be that people go, Oh, in order to meditate, I have to put off, like, Oh, I have to be available for an hour, or, Oh, I have to have the right cushion, or all those excuses that we can make.[00:35:59] Aline Ra M: No, I mean, we are here to live. You’re right. We’re here to live. We’re here to enjoy. And life presents so many opportunities for us to do just that. It’s just that we’re so busy, so caught up somewhere else that we lose these opportunities.[00:36:16] Charna Cassell: Yeah.[00:36:16] Aline Ra M: So for me, a big part is to come back to the small pleasures of life, to appreciating the food we’re eating, our teacup, listening to our favorite song fully and singing along instead of just being a background, [00:36:32] Charna Cassell: hmm. Mm hmm. [00:36:32] Aline Ra M: like paying attention to those things, how we are actually a part of it.[00:36:37] Aline Ra M: Living our lives, the how is as important as the what.[00:36:41] Charna Cassell: Right. It’s one of the things about that practice that I appreciate is that as a child, and I think a lot of people could probably relate to this, you know, there’s a certain age, especially for girls, where we would do that, we would tickle each other’s arms, you know, and even this week in a session, I had a client who was having a lot of anxiety and she was just not conscious that she was doing it, but she was, I brought it to her attention that she was tickling and stroking and it was like, she just knew there’s an innate wisdom in her as there are.[00:37:13] Charna Cassell: Bye. Bye. There isn’t everyone that we know ways to soothe ourselves. We know ways to ground or open our own hearts. And we just may not even realize what we’re engaging in that process. So,[00:37:27] Aline Ra M: Exactly. If we just stop to listen to ourselves and observe what is happening, we’re gonna find great treasures there for sure. [00:37:34] Charna Cassell: Anything else? I know that you also have an eight week program for spiritual development. Is there anything else that you want to share and how people can reach you?[00:37:44] Aline Ra M: I mean, I have quite a few different types of programs, depending on where people are on their path. Regardless, the best way to work with me is to book a breakthrough call. So this is a first call without commitment where I assess your field and give you direction. Even if you’re not working with me after, you still get direction.[00:38:05] Aline Ra M: And if you consider working with me, I’ll see exactly where you fit in the things that I offer. Okay. I give healing sessions. I have online courses, so my website is a full plate, like a full buffet there. So if you go to Elin sorry, elin do com, I think you have it on the show notes as well. So it’s I don’t need to spell here.[00:38:25] Aline Ra M: I have a guide, a free guide called What is Spiritual Growth. which I think it’s a great beginning on this path. It is extremely practical and hands on in its example. So if you go to elindram. com spiritual growth, you can find that. [00:38:43] Aline Ra M: You will also find on my website, a free masterclass to how to connect with the divine. So these are a few of the offers that I have to support you on your path.[00:38:54] Charna Cassell: Beautiful.[00:38:54] Aline Ra M: yeah, the best place to find me is on my website and on YouTube is Alinram as well. All mysteries there.[00:39:02] Aline Ra M: Thank you so much for having me today, Sharon It was fun talking to you.[00:39:05] Charna Cassell: well thank you again. It was good to meet you.

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© 2022 By Charna Cassell, LMFT. Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. MFC 51238.

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