Charna Cassell: Welcome back to Late Open Podcast, and I'm your host, Charna Cassell. During my hiatus from recording this podcast, I've been building an online course on how to live the passionate, pleasure filled, peaceful life you want, reduce self sabotaging behavior, and gain control over your nervous system.
Charna Cassell: Creating courses for people around the world to understand the impact of trauma on their bodies and relationships and how they can heal is something I've wanted to do for over a decade. And I'm thrilled it's finally happening. I'll keep you posted as to when it's launching. And for now, you can also sign up for my newsletter, read my blog, or send questions to be answered at SharnaCassell.
[00:00:43] Charna Cassell: com. Today's guest is Nick Palladino King. He's a certified conscious executive and leadership and life coach. And for over 15 years, he's trained and taught movement, breath, work, meditation, coaching, and entrepreneurship. Welcome Nick.
[00:01:44] Nick Palladino: Hey, thanks for having me on. How you doing?
[00:01:46] Charna Cassell: Yeah, I'm good. I'm glad this worked out. So to give a little context, I met Nick at a mutual friend's dinner party.
[00:01:56] Charna Cassell: and it came out that we both have podcasts. Do you want to share the name of your podcast?
[00:02:01] Nick Palladino: Yeah, sure. Mine's called conscious conversations with Nick and Nitin.
[00:02:06] Charna Cassell: And what, what inspired you to start a podcast? Like what, what drew you to it? Because I know you do a lot of, go ahead.
[00:02:14] Nick Palladino: it's a good question. It's one, I find it to be a creative outlet for myself. Especially something outside of kind of the regimented things I do of, of coaching and teaching and running a business. So for me to a large extent, it's, it's a creative process. It's something that it's art. And I had came up with the idea a couple of years ago to start doing a podcast.
[00:02:34] Nick Palladino: And I started doing it on my own. And I realized pretty quickly that I wasn't going to do it on my own. So I linked up with a former student of mine. He's now a coach as well. So, we, we jumped into it about two years ago. And our idea was initially for us to start having conscious conversations and record them because he and I had started having some very cool metaphysical, you know, conscious conversations.
[00:03:00] Nick Palladino: And one day Nithin goes. You know, maybe we should start recording this. Maybe we should start putting out there what we're talking about. And that was the catalyst for our show. And then, then it became, well, why don't we start to go find people who are really pushing the limits and the boundaries of consciousness and coaching and teaching and, and start to interview them.
[00:03:18] Nick Palladino: And what we've kind of experienced over the last couple of years, and I don't know if you've found this Charna is we've almost stepped into like a matrix of coaches and teachers and therapists, and we've got to one, and then they will refer us to another person who like, Normally, maybe we wouldn't be able to access, but because we're going through like the friend referral network, we've been getting just really, really cool, rad people.
[00:03:39] Nick Palladino: And it's also, it's so fun to sit and listen to people that are really knowledgeable and learn as the host and the interviewer. And you really get to kind of double dip, you get to help other people learn and grow and you get to help learn and grow. I've had a couple where like, I feel like I was in the coaching session or I was like, you know, I was in the therapist chair.
[00:03:58] Nick Palladino: So, That's what's been, been really lighting me up around podcasting and having conversations and meeting people like you. And, and really at the end of the day, elevating the consciousness of the planet through conversations that matter and conversations that change people's lives
[00:04:12] Charna Cassell: And, and so, it may be an obvious question, but I think that there's some people that were like, well, what's consciousness? What is a conscious conversation?
[00:04:21] Nick Palladino: Yeah. So in terms of like, what is consciousness?
[00:04:24] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Well, so when you say we're having conscious conversations, what constitutes a conscious conversation compared to an unconscious conversation?
[00:04:34] Nick Palladino: Well, I think a nice way we can look at that is through relationship, right? And when I think of what a conscious conversation is, it's, can you and I both in this moment be, first of all, be present with each other. And actually I would say, can, first of all, can we be present with ourselves
[00:04:50] Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:51] Nick Palladino: so that we are aware of How we're thinking, how we're feeling our breath, our energy, right?
[00:04:57] Nick Palladino: And the more that you and I individually can be aware of that in ourselves, then the more presence and awareness and consciousness we can bring into our conversation. And what I find is when, when both parties come from that space of presence, it can be really awesome to kind of sit back and just see
[00:05:15] Nick Palladino: what comes forth like without an agenda, without a topic, or we were saying before we started without having interview questions. So I think to a large extent, it's, it's a dynamic conversation that happens in, in the space of presence what I'll find for myself. And I'd be interested in how you, how you feel about this is when I get into a conversation with someone like you or our mutual friend, that's, that's of a high vibe, these pieces of information or knowledge come out that it's almost like.
[00:05:43] Nick Palladino: Oh, that's way more than my personality could have put together like that. Like, like I'm not that smart. Like Nick, isn't that smart.
[00:05:51] Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:52] Nick Palladino: Nick's ego is too big to, to, you know, to come up with this or not take credit for that. And these things come out almost through transmission of source, right? It's like the information comes in.
[00:06:01] Nick Palladino: Oh, I don't usually think like that or talk like that. And then it comes out and then you and I'll start to know like, Oh, we get into this flow that there's something higher happening here. There's like a higher vibration or higher self starting to talk. And what I find is as I get myself into that space, then that probably allows you also to step into that space. And then there's something really, really interesting that can happen from there. And I have a feeling that's going to happen with us today is the third person in the room can start to appear. Have you ever heard of this? This concept or theory?
[00:06:31] Charna Cassell: And it's not Elijah. I'm kidding. You're not Jewish. You don't know what I'm talking about.
[00:06:36] Nick Palladino: that from the Bible.
[00:06:37] Charna Cassell: No, Elijah at Passover, you leave, you set an extra plate at the table and you open the door and you let Elijah to basically symbolize there's, you know, strangers are always welcome at the Passover, at the Seder, or at a Seder.
[00:06:49] Charna Cassell: It's like, anyways.
[00:06:52] Nick Palladino: you know, in a way, yes, that's kind of it. So the third person in the room is I bring my best material, right? You bring your best material. And then the two of us together, we create, which is then the third person in the room, or maybe the third entity in the room. It could be, it could be a business, be a podcast.
[00:07:10] Nick Palladino: It could be you and I sitting in a therapy session and then finding out. This aspect of me that wants to come forth. So by the two of us being present, we can then create this third entity. And the third entity is usually it's greater than the sum of its parts, right? It's like, wow, you wanted one equal to three.
[00:07:26] Nick Palladino: And that's when I usually find we're stepping into a conscious conversation. That is positive, nurturing, loving, and really creates more than what we usually can do within our own kind of limits of our minds and our habitual patterning. So we're stepping out of that and we're stepping into presence.
[00:07:41] Charna Cassell: Perfect. I love it. And, and yes, I have absolutely listeners can't see that I've been nodding a lot while you were sharing. And I have that experience with certain sessions, right? With my clients and the image that I get is that they have these guides that are, that are above their head. And there I have my guides and their guides are like, let's play together.
[00:08:02] Charna Cassell: And that there's this openness. To more information coming through and I happen to be a conduit for it. And I'll have clients be like, oh my God, you have to write that down. That's good . You know, I'm like, I don't even remember. And honestly, the longer I used to, when I first started seeing clients have somewhat of a photographic memory where I could tr I could transcribe a whole session pretty much verbatim everything that I was doing with them.
[00:08:28] Charna Cassell: And part of it's probably aging and all of the things, but I think that. When I get out of my own way and it's not me doing the work, then it's harder to remember, you know, it's harder to, it's when someone else is speaking through you, it's harder to recall what exactly was said or done.
[00:08:47] Nick Palladino: Yeah, similar. And it's like, those are those moments, right? When you're like, wait a second, like, where did that come from? What did I just say? And then they're kind of looking at you like, how'd you come up with that? It's like, I have no idea. I don't know. Something I've learned is to then not care. Also.
[00:09:02] Nick Palladino: That's been actually quite relieving before when I was a younger coach, I would be like, well, how did this work? Or how did this happen? Or how did me and this client sit? And all of a sudden their life transformed. And when I stopped trying to figure it out, it helped me actually relax. And it helped me just be like, well, this is faith or this is surrender.
[00:09:19] Nick Palladino: This is divine timing. And these all things are working perfectly in that moment to come forth. And the less I've tried to figure it out, the more access to presence and consciousness I've, I've gained. And it sounds like you're doing something, something very similar. It's such a cool experience too.
[00:09:35] Nick Palladino: It's like, you almost hit a flow state, right.
[00:09:38] Charna Cassell: Right, right. It's, it's exactly that. I used to have a writing practice in when I was in college. You know, writing down the bones, you know, that book, Natalie Goldberg. So free writing, where you don't lift your pen, and you're journaling, or you have a prompt, and you just write and you write for a minimum of 20 minutes.
[00:09:56] Charna Cassell: And at a certain point, if you just keep going through even when you want to stop, you'll find that when you're done, you don't even remember what you've written. And it's like someone else was writing through you. So that's, that was my first experience having a daily practice like that of going into the alpha brainwave states, right?
[00:10:15] Charna Cassell: This is pre meditation. I didn't start meditating for a couple of years after that. And it was, it was what I would, would call my first spiritual relationship. Like I felt like, oh, this is how I connect to, you know, God, source, whatever you want to call it, was through writing. And really it's just that flow state inside yourself and connected to something bigger.
[00:10:37] Nick Palladino: What I love about that is we can all access that in our own ways. Like I've accessed that through writing. I don't know if you've ever written something and then you come back to it the next day or the next week or month and you're like, wait, who wrote that? Like, that's not, that's not me. That happens quite often.
[00:10:52] Nick Palladino: Or I watch I watched my wife who you met, who is not a spiritual person really at all. She's, she's English and she's very like, no, we don't, we don't meditate. But when she draws or she paints, I've watched her, she'll go into like five hours of just oneness with the material she's working on. Won't eat, won't drink, and she'll come out of this space and she won't know where she is, what time it is, what she's done.
[00:11:18] Nick Palladino: And it's like, Oh, I'm watching a master. I'm literally watching someone who is one with the piece that she's working on. And it's so cool to see. You and I have the ability to do it with like, maybe like a golden tongue, right? The ability to, to talk, she can do it with a golden pen or the golden paintbrush.
[00:11:34] Nick Palladino: Athletes do it with their bodies, you know, dancers do it in their performance. And it's like, it's so cool that we all have different ways to access consciousness. And I think what we're doing is at the end of the day is we're trying to get into the consciousness space and however we are able to do it, that's the technique or the tool or the modality we use to then get in.
[00:11:54] Nick Palladino: And now we're all kind of in the same realm. We're all in that same flow state, that same, that same higher consciousness. So it's always so awesome to see how we can all access it differently.
[00:12:03] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. But that one of the key components is presence and being with what's happening right now and not thinking about laundry and your mom coming to visit and all the things that are happening in the past or the future. Yeah.
[00:12:21] Nick Palladino: Yeah. How do you work with that? I find that challenging, you know, before you and I jumped on today, I had a really, really challenging conversation with a coaching client that
[00:12:31] Charna Cassell: hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:12:32] Nick Palladino: didn't go well. And then after you and I chat, I've got five or six meetings at my, my studio. Like, so how do you, how do you stay present when there is past and future things happening around you that can feel.
[00:12:47] Nick Palladino: Compressing that can feel traumatic that can feel intense. Like, what do you have any tips on that?
[00:12:53] Charna Cassell: I think that's such, it's such a good question because I don't have an answer. No, I mean, no, it's, it's, it's that, that this is, you know, those questions that have you answer them in the moment, because I don't have some formula. I don't actually, sometimes there are things and it's, it's been the challenge of creating a course.
[00:13:12] Charna Cassell: I just finished recording a course and. Trying to describe what you do, and it's very, I feel like it's different if you're teaching yoga poses, right? You're like, you do this pose, then you do this pose, and then you, you know, but when you're trying to access and language something that you have access to, And then explain to someone else how to do it and, and even, yeah, so that's, that's what we're, we're trying to do right now.
[00:13:41] Charna Cassell: It's like, okay, so I also, I came from right from out of my own therapy session before this call, right? And so then, and then I'm going into another call after this and it's a felt state. And I think the invitation to be in this conversation without my questions. Right? Then I'm not sitting and thinking in advance.
[00:14:04] Charna Cassell: What am I, what am I feeling? There's a feeling of expansiveness,
[00:14:14] Charna Cassell: and of course answering this question kind of, you know, takes me out of the, takes me out of the whatever state I was in before the question, but we're going to keep going. There's a quality of listening to what you're saying and I'm trying to figure out how that would be different than if I have another stream of consciousness flowing at the same time. I actually think, I will say, I think we have the capacity to be connected in multiple streams at the same time. I have had this experience even while meditating, right?
[00:14:47] Charna Cassell: Like I'm chanting, I'm counting my, my mala beads. I'm feeling the impact of the, of the sounds that I'm making from the chant and I might still be making a list. So I think we actually are designed to have that capacity and it's a different feeling than making art, writing, having sex, physical practice.
[00:15:12] Charna Cassell: That's a different flow state. And I don't know if I would say it's hyper focus, because it feels expansive when I think of hyper focus, I think of a narrowing.
[00:15:30] Nick Palladino: Yeah
[00:15:32] Charna Cassell: but I also, I've done things like done art for, you know, it's like 10 hours of gardening for me. I can do that from like more, from, from 9 a. m. till the sun sets, you know. And, and just fully in the, the somatic experience of digging a hole, planting, weeding, whatever it is that I'm doing,
[00:15:52] Charna Cassell: enjoying my physical sensations. Yeah, I don't, I don't have a perfect answer for you.
[00:16:03] Nick Palladino: I like that.
[00:16:04] Charna Cassell: I like your imperfect answer.
[00:16:07] Nick Palladino: I like it perfectly and perfect. Yeah. As
[00:16:11] Charna Cassell: Yeah, how about
[00:16:12] Nick Palladino: talking, I can, well, as you're talking, I could see what you're talking about and it's like, okay, I can feel the energetic pull of the conversation I had before. I can feel the anticipation of things that are coming my way today, and at the same time, I can be here present with you.
[00:16:26] Nick Palladino: And so, in a sense, past, future, and present are all happening right here in me. And I can, well, I guess what I'm, what I'm noticing is that as long as I can bring awareness to the fact that past and future are feeling up for me right now, that gives me the ability to then manage them and work with them.
[00:16:40] Nick Palladino: And be like, okay, well, I'm feeling that, but maybe I can look at that later.
[00:16:44] Charna Cassell: Well,
[00:16:44] Nick Palladino: that's coming. Yeah, good.
[00:16:46] Charna Cassell: or I was gonna say, or we could look at it now. I mean, you know, that's the, there is a huge reality of the impact of the people that we work with and that we love or feel challenged by. And what comes up for you, right? And what's the, what are the emotional reactions or responses? And what's the stuff that gets stirred for you
[00:17:08] Nick Palladino: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Charna Cassell: when you have a session that doesn't feel like it, you know, transforms their life.
[00:17:14] Nick Palladino: Yeah. Well, I mean, that would be where I've learned to sit in also is that doesn't matter. Or there's a session going horribly wrong is the perfect session.
[00:17:24] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm. Mm
[00:17:26] Nick Palladino: that's a big one to get your, your head around like, Oh no. We got an argument or they fired me as a coach or whatever. And it's like, that was actually the perfect thing to happen for that person to grow or for me to grow.
[00:17:36] Nick Palladino: And it's
[00:17:37] Charna Cassell: hmm.
[00:17:37] Nick Palladino: well, from that seat, then man, that was a fantastic session.
[00:17:42] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm.
[00:17:42] Nick Palladino: And I think that's learning to have more space and more awareness and more of a kind of a, a witness viewpoint of what's, what's happening in the moment, you know, rather than I need to knock it out of the park. And then, well, now we just have expectations and attachments and now we're nowhere near present at all.
[00:17:56] Nick Palladino: We're going to, we're going to miss the big nuggets that are right there in front of us.
[00:18:00] Charna Cassell: what our notion of success is, right? I think breakups illustrate this so well, right? When you go through a breakup with somebody, whether it's a client, whether it's a partner And if we're measuring success by staying together, right, versus if you, you know, in the breakup, it's like, okay, this person came, they, they, they've brought certain, they've evoked certain things for you to process and move through, right?
[00:18:29] Charna Cassell: A lot of the emotions and feelings that come up are so not about that person. They're about the past and other historical relationships. And if, if you can hold it that way, like, okay, exactly what's up for me. To be with is, is the right thing rather than, you know, some future trajectory I thought I was on with this person.
[00:18:51] Charna Cassell: It doesn't mean that all the feelings aren't super intense, but,
[00:18:55] Nick Palladino: Yeah.
[00:18:56] Charna Cassell: yeah.
[00:18:57] Nick Palladino: Like that. There's like a more of a definition of what is success.
[00:19:03] Charna Cassell: Right.
[00:19:05] Nick Palladino: What are we actually trying to do here while trying to learn and grow and transform like, okay, well then let's be open to what that looks like. And it's, it might not be being with the client forever. It probably isn't. I think a lot in coaching and therapy
[00:19:18] Charna Cassell: Oh, yeah,
[00:19:18] Nick Palladino: extremely codependent. That's a whole nother, that's a whole nother topic to dive
[00:19:22] Charna Cassell: No, no, success is actually your, I, you know, in terms of a client, it's the client leaving. But it's not, I'm
[00:19:28] Nick Palladino: what's so funny? I, I've told my wife that for years. I'm like, my, I tell everyone I work with, my goal is for you to not need me. And she's like, could you stop telling people that she's like, that's the worst business model I've ever heard in my entire life.
[00:19:42] Charna Cassell: But at the same time, I, the opposite, I was thinking the opposite when we're sitting here going like, you know, you know, Maybe, maybe something explosive happening, it's like not being attached to the outcome. It's like if you're a coach, coaches are so sick. It's like, what's the, people come in to see a coach and they're like, I want to know how this is going to happen.
[00:20:03] Charna Cassell: What's the plan? What's the model? And you're like, we're going to be in a conscious conversation and they might flip out.
[00:20:11] Nick Palladino: We're going to, we're going to just walk together.
[00:20:14] Charna Cassell: Mm
[00:20:15] Nick Palladino: And that's what we're going to do. Well, it's interesting as you were talking before about how you're creating the course that you're having a hard time defining like what you do or right in the end. I've almost completely dropped that, by the way, from my practice.
[00:20:29] Nick Palladino: Like, I've been teaching yoga for over a decade. I have the highest yoga cert you can have, but I, and I'd actually don't tell anyone that I'm a yoga teacher anymore
[00:20:38] Charna Cassell: Mm
[00:20:39] Nick Palladino: because the second I say I'm a yoga teacher, one, it defines me and it puts me into a box and then two, it brings pictures for people like, well, do a pose.
[00:20:47] Nick Palladino: Do this. It's like, well, actually, no, that's not in the form of the way in which I'm using yoga. So it's almost like I'm a guide. I'm a coach. Well, what are you coaching? Well, I don't know. We're gonna have to wait and see what it is that you want to create. And then the two of us will work together to co create the reality that you want to bring forth.
[00:21:06] Nick Palladino: And that might be physical, emotional, sexual relationship. I don't know. Like, and I'm actually not attached to whatever you create or don't create. It's up to you as the client to, to define that. And my job is just to simply guide along and, and be of service. And it's helped me relax on this idea of like, who am I, who am I for, who's my ideal client? It's like my ideal client is the person that wants to transform their life and is ready to do so. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, well then let's do that together. That's helped me relax a lot around the things we were talking about before.
[00:21:40] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Well, and the thing that also stands out when you say that is when you're initially starting something and you have, you're like, I am a yoga teacher, right? Again, like what, you know, there's, there's, there might be formulas for certain things. Oh, you're, you want to confront fear, do some backbends or something like that, rather than as you.
[00:22:02] Charna Cassell: Are on your own path and you accumulate these different tools, you might have less of a formula and you're really just you're, you're showing up and you're seeing what this other person is specifically needing. And I think that's really important is being with the person that's in front of you, rather than following a script that you learned in coaching school.
[00:22:24] Nick Palladino: because then we're not present. At my fitness and yoga studio, one of my trainers the other day he's starting to acquire more knowledge and he's kind of getting to this point of like, what do I use? And I'm like just, you're gonna know in the moment what tool you need.
[00:22:41] Nick Palladino: Like, is the person in pain? Okay, go do some corrective exercise. Like, do they, is there nutritional? Go there. So just kind of wait and see in the moment, like have a plan, but also be willing to shift and be flexible and navigate like, Oh, here's what they need. Then you're going to have that tool. If you're present and not coming from this prescripted thing of like, here's what this person needs.
[00:23:05] Nick Palladino: Like, well, I don't know what they need. I haven't, haven't talked to them in the present moment.
[00:23:08] Charna Cassell: Well, and that piece of trust. Right. That just, that resting into being able to trust yourself, which do you feel like you had that early in life or that's a byproduct of practice and being responsive to yourself over time?
[00:23:27] Nick Palladino: That's a really good question, and this is something I've just started to understand. It's something two of my teachers have been kind of pounding into me for the last decade. And at first I thought I trusted myself, is what I would say. I thought that I knew what I was doing, right? And not to say I didn't, but what I've realized is, is actually that was arrogance, is what that was at first.
[00:23:55] Nick Palladino: And it's actually interesting, something both of my teachers have taught me is that At first, you need arrogance to be a teacher,
[00:24:02] Charna Cassell: hmm. Mm
[00:24:03] Nick Palladino: like you need, you need enough self faith in yourself to get up in front of people like, or like you and I do to have a show and say, Hey, I'm an expert and I have something to share.
[00:24:14] Nick Palladino: Like we need some arrogance. We need some chutzpah, right? As you would say in Yiddish. And so I've, I've realized that for a long time, what I thought was trust or what I thought was faith or confidence was actually arrogance. And that got me really far, it got me to a place of being willing to get in front of 50 or 100 people and share a message or to open my own fitness and yoga studio in San Francisco or to go to companies and speak in front of people that have way more knowledge about things than I do, but be like, you know, I'm here to share. And up until a few years ago, I don't think I would have able to answer this question like this, but I realized is that the arrogance only took me so far. It began to be a glass ceiling. And what I've had to learn how to do the last year or two is leave that behind, also leave a lot of my ego behind, and now jump into another rung of mastery or teaching that, where ego can't really be involved as much.
[00:25:15] Nick Palladino: And now it's learning to trust, Oh, now that I have this inner faith and confidence in myself, that I am, period, no matter.
[00:25:24] Charna Cassell: hmm.
[00:25:27] Nick Palladino: What I'm doing, what's happening in my life. If it's going good, if it's going bad, those things actually don't matter because I am, I'm here, I'm in matter. So therefore I must matter. I exist. So I've stopped doubting that. And then now as a result, this deeper aspect of trust and faith. Has been stepping forward and it's like, no, no, we've got this.
[00:25:49] Nick Palladino: We're good. Trust yourself. I was actually talking to a client about this yesterday. stages of that. It's like, first we don't hear it. We don't hear the voice, right? So there is actually, there's kind of nothing to trust. It's just our habitual patterning of, well, this is what I do at some point.
[00:26:07] Nick Palladino: Then maybe we start to hear like, okay, here's what my personality or ego wants to do. And then over on the other hand, here's what my consciousness or higher self wants to do. And once I start to hear those two different points of views, well then now I have to start to work with choice. Like, which one do I listen to?
[00:26:25] Nick Palladino: Well, personality's got me this far. I think I'm going to keep going with it. then, you know, then you start to jump into, well, I guess what happens if I listen to, listen to consciousness today? Let's give it a shot. So then that's kind of the first step is understanding which one to listen to. And then once you start to listen to your higher self, now I think we finally start to move into trust. Cause now I've got a relationship that I've started to build and go, okay, well, if my higher self is me, it's the universe, then it's probably got my back. So why don't I trust it? Okay. let me go and start to develop that. And then your personality might freak out and kind of chirp in and be like, no, no, no.
[00:27:04] Nick Palladino: I've got this. So that's a long winded way of me saying that I've really worked this for the last decade. Now is moving into trusting myself and having faith. I think faith is extremely powerful word. of I don't know why this is going to work out, but I know with like a capital K that it will and it's going to.
[00:27:21] Charna Cassell: hmm.
[00:27:23] Nick Palladino: and yeah, I've got my back. The universe has my back. I am, I am that. That is me. Okay, cool. And then I can relax. And actually what I just felt in me is as I relax, I can access more of my higher self and then trust it even more and develop that relationship to know like, Oh, we were together. We've got this.
[00:27:41] Charna Cassell: Yeah. And I, one of the things that I find helpful that Capital K knowing as you said that the question that I asked in my head was now what's the felt experience in your body when you do when you connect into that place of knowing, what does it feel like and then track that over time, that sensation in your body can be the thing that helps you know, oh, this is the thing to trust.
[00:28:06] Charna Cassell: I'm curious, what does it feel like for you when you when you drop into that knowing?
[00:28:12] Nick Palladino: so It shifts. One thing I'll usually say to people is like, either see, sense, or feel it. So I want to acknowledge that, that it's important to remember there's all different ways some of us actually might hear source come through. For me personally, I feel it. It's a sense. Right. I think you're probably, I'm guessing similar based off some of the
[00:28:31] Charna Cassell: I, I actually get it all. I get
[00:28:33] Nick Palladino: you get at all.
[00:28:34] Charna Cassell: the images, I hear things, and I am very kinesthetic. Like I, I get a lot of sensation in my body.
[00:28:43] Nick Palladino: , I think first is knowing what's your kind of learning style, right? What's your way you receive. And then, yeah, as I've opened up and gotten more sensitive, they've come in in different ways. But for me, it's just this felt sense of knowing of like, when I said something a couple minutes ago, I felt myself relax.
[00:28:56] Charna Cassell: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:57] Nick Palladino: And it was like, Oh, this feels right. And to me, that's kind of how it comes forth. Like, Oh, how do I, how do I know that? Like, I don't really know, but I know that this feels right to me. And then that's what I'm going to do. And now for me, my right action is going to be trusting what feels right inside of my body.
[00:29:16] Nick Palladino: So for me, it's definitely a felt sense. I'm not very visual. I don't see a lot of images. But it's like, Ooh, yes, that's it. It's like, that's it right there.
[00:29:25] Charna Cassell: And what is that? What is that feeling? The, that's it, it feels right. What does right feel like in your body?
[00:29:31] Nick Palladino: Oh, it almost it feels like warm, almost like a blanket, almost like someone gave me a good hug is kind of what it just felt like there. And it's in my heart. And that feeling like, and there's some there's some safety, there's some security there. There's an ease that is in that space.
[00:29:47] Nick Palladino: Yeah, which is very cool to be able to touch. And be able to actually notice my hand is actually on my heart as I'm, as I'm talking oh, and then also, I don't know if you get this, then the hair on my arms will stand up
[00:29:57] Charna Cassell: Uhhuh,
[00:29:58] Nick Palladino: like electricity. So then my electrical body will also tell me that's another cue.
[00:30:01] Nick Palladino: My electrical body will tell me it's a yes. Or it'll tell me whatever we're talking about is important. So that just happened to where all the hair on my body just stood up.
[00:30:10] Charna Cassell: Yeah. And I can feel it in my right now as you're saying that I can, I get shivers in my legs.
[00:30:17] Nick Palladino: Really?
[00:30:17] Charna Cassell: I get goosebumps. Yeah. Yeah. I get, I get goosebumps when other people as well as myself, like there's some kind of like truth or accurate thing that's occurring. Something that feels right.
[00:30:28] Nick Palladino: So the, so another piece I want to throw in there then is also understanding are the different bodies we have access to. There's lots of different systems and yoga. We can look at the, the kosha model, which is a, is a great model. I use that one more or less, but another one I like is more of the metaphysical model where we have a physical body and emotional body an electrical body, then a spiritual body.
[00:30:50] Nick Palladino: So on the physical side, like what is my physical body actually feeling? Like, what are the sensations there? Like, I just noticed like my right trap kind of tensed up. I don't know. So, okay. Like, what are you trying to tell me right shoulder? Oh, you know, and then am I willing to listen
[00:31:07] Nick Palladino: then on the emotional side?
[00:31:08] Nick Palladino: Like, what is my emotional body feeling? Right. Am I feeling open? Am I feeling scared? Am I feeling excited? Am I feeling frustrated? Okay. Like, well, why I'm noticing that I have like a little bit of a tension headache. Okay. Like, what is that? What is that telling me? Then I have my, my chakra system, my electrical body, well that lit up as you and I were talking.
[00:31:28] Nick Palladino: Okay, what are my chakras showing me or what are they seeing or which chakra am I seeing the world through? What lens? And then finally, you know, what is , my spiritual body? What is that connection to my purpose or to source or God? What is that telling me? And all of those are happening at the same time. And they all might be feeling, they probably are feeling something different at the same time.
[00:31:51] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm. Exactly.
[00:31:53] Nick Palladino: which is, I had. A student asked me a year ago, he goes, if everything's one and we're all connected, then why are you teaching me about the different bodies? like, that's a great question. And the reason is I want you to get more sensitive to each one so that now you have more data to work with.
[00:32:10] Nick Palladino: They go, Oh, my physical unit needs a massage,
[00:32:13] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm.
[00:32:14] Nick Palladino: but actually my pain's not coming from there. It's actually coming from my spiritual body. So now you have more access to define where your pain is coming from, and then you can actually work with it in a specific way or modality so that we can get back to the sense of, of oneness.
[00:32:31] Nick Palladino: Yeah.
[00:32:31] Charna Cassell: Well, and it's first, awesome. I, I love that you went into those distinctions, that, that's something that I feel, I feel very aligned with in terms of, you know, being a psychotherapist was not the dream, right? So I was like, I, I got trained as a somatic coach, which felt very aligned. I became a psychotherapist.
[00:32:54] Charna Cassell: But one thing alone, one approach alone is not enough. And so, you know, there's, I feel like I work with clients on an energetic level, an emotional level, a spiritual level and, and so on. Earlier I can't remember what exactly you were saying, but you were talking about maybe it was an arrogant part saying a certain thing and, and, you know, parts work.
[00:33:18] Charna Cassell: I don't know how much you use parts work in the work that you're doing with clients, but I get that this this client's desire. To just have it be like, well, can't it just be one whole thing? Like, doesn't that simplify it? Why break it up into all these parts? And then it's like, oh my God, there's so much nuance because you have.
[00:33:36] Charna Cassell: The electrical body, you have the spiritual body. You have this part from when you were two, you have this part, that's an angry teenager. You have this, you know, like we have all these parts, we have all these different sensory ways of relating and processing information. And. You know, then trying to teach this, I was I was teaching in Nepal, I was working at an orphanage, doing a trauma and resilience training for the teachers there.
[00:34:07] Charna Cassell: And we tried to just really simplify it in terms of like, what are your thoughts? What are your sensations? What are your emotions? And then can you give each one a number? Like. You know, 10 being, I feel fantastic, and one being,
[00:34:24] Charna Cassell: it's a hard day in my body in this way, this hurts, , but it's like your mind could feel really good, but your back really hurts, right? So, Timber number cattyhole was the, was the Nepali phrase. So the students and the teachers and I would all be walking around being like, what's your number today, miss?
[00:34:41] Charna Cassell: And you know, we would make these distinctions of like, oh, I, I'm a, I'm a 10 in this way, but I'm a five in this way. And starting to just understand and take our whole experience in rather than orienting through the lens that we default to.
[00:34:57] Nick Palladino: yeah, it's it's so it's so cool and parts work can be done in all different ways to you, right? I like a lot of times it's done, you know mentally with these characters we've had in our lives But one one example that I had with this that really transformed my own personal health and wellness was I got into yoga from a car accident when I was 18.
[00:35:18] Nick Palladino: So I had debilitating debilitating back pain from age 20, age 18 to like 25, like so much so that I couldn't even like stand and do the dishes because my back couldn't handle more than like five minutes of you know, standing over the sink the, all the while I'm a college, I'm playing college basketball, which kind of doesn't make sense.
[00:35:35] Charna Cassell: Oh my god.
[00:35:36] Nick Palladino: I'll think more about that later. So I got into,
[00:35:38] Charna Cassell: What was the part that insisted on you continuing to play basketball?
[00:35:42] Nick Palladino: Was that the ego? Was that the, I think that was, okay. That was the arrogance. Got it. Got it. That was it. And so as I started practicing yoga, like 23, 24, things started getting better in my back. And it wasn't until around age 30 when I got around my, my yoga teacher named Jean Mazzei,
[00:35:59] Nick Palladino: and I had been going to Jean for a while and I'm doing all of these different things. I'm doing massage, I'm doing yoga, I'm doing physical therapy. And my hip pain, no matter what I did, would not go away. Like it was to the point, it was so bad in my early thirties that I couldn't even do child's pose because of how much hip pain I had.
[00:36:17] Nick Palladino: And I remember Jean, one day she said something to the effect of, if you keep going in to the physical body to try to cure your hip, And if it's not working, that means you're not working in the right system. And that was such a, like a mind blowing moment of, Oh my God, I never thought that my hip pain actually might be emotional pain.
[00:36:42] Nick Palladino: It may be the fear of the car accident holding on. I think for me, actually, it was more spiritual pain of not living in my purpose. And it was like, and once I started to understand these different bodies existed and started to work in different modalities with them. Well, wow, after three months or six months of being around Jean, now my hip pain's gone.
[00:37:01] Nick Palladino: How did that happen? Well, part of it's being around a very enlightened being who can uplevel you, but also like, here's this tool. It's here. Look at this. And now I know when my hip starts hurting, usually it's actually fear based or money based emotional stuff. Okay, interesting. That's also kind of my first and second chakra.
[00:37:22] Nick Palladino: Well, that tracks. So then maybe there's something there in my, my, my chakras as well. So it's like, Oh, now I can work with that and manipulate that in the right way. I could go to you for it, for example, because it's like, Hey, there's some emotional stuff. So then also, who's the right teacher?
[00:37:37] Charna Cassell: Absolutely.
[00:37:40] Nick Palladino: Yeah. And then you figure out who's the right teacher, who's the right coach to go to based off the pain or the challenge that you're experiencing, because to some extent, like a therapist isn't the right tool for, you know, your spiritual life. And now you may be, but most aren't right. And a physical therapist might not be good for curing your chakra.
[00:37:59] Nick Palladino: So like, this is where you can really get present with What am I feeling? What modality do I want to go to? And then in that moment, how do I trust myself to choose the right action or right modality to heal myself? And I love to even say like, it could be you and I going to get a drink and get a glass of wine.
[00:38:16] Nick Palladino: That might be the modality that we need to just connect and feel love and feel seen like, okay, perfect. And let's go do that.
[00:38:24] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm.
[00:38:25] Nick Palladino: You know, it doesn't always have to be some drastic thing. A lot of times I find it's, it's not
[00:38:31] Charna Cassell: What I think is so important about that is , you could be referred to some master yogi or, you know, like the best psychotherapist, and that might not be the person that's right for you.
[00:38:41] Nick Palladino: totally.
[00:38:42] Charna Cassell: not be your teacher and so it's just not gonna be the right fit or they have a certain, like you said, they have a certain modality that is not going to be the thing that's resonant for you and you have to be doing the emotional work and not, you know, using a special laser to fix your back,
[00:38:58] Nick Palladino: Yeah.
[00:38:59] Charna Cassell: right?
[00:39:00] Charna Cassell: That's awesome.
[00:39:02] Nick Palladino: Yeah. And I, the only other thing I would put on that is that can help us relax as both teachers and also as, you know, as the patients of like, you don't need to be everything for everyone.
[00:39:14] Charna Cassell: Right.
[00:39:15] Nick Palladino: And your teacher doesn't have to be the answer to everything. Like, and that's like, okay, I can relax. And how can I serve?
[00:39:22] Nick Palladino: And how can I bring some more awareness to this aspect? And if I can't, then Well, the best thing I could do is refer to the other person I know that, that can, and then we're also being abundant. We're not being in the scarcity mindset of like, Oh, this is my client, or this is my teacher and, you know, grasping and that gets nasty.
[00:39:39] Nick Palladino: And we we've seen that, but yeah, that it gives more freedom, like what's the right thing in this moment to go do. And then, okay, I'm going to trust myself to go take that right action.
[00:39:48] Charna Cassell: It was that particular lesson was a really important one for me . So I've seen clients for 20 years and for the first eight, at least the first eight to 10, that sense of responsibility, right? Like I had to unlearn a sense of responsibility for the people in my environment.
[00:40:06] Nick Palladino: What do you mean?
[00:40:07] Charna Cassell: I was in utero already taking my mom's pain away, you know, so that it was very cellular and practiced in me to, to feel a sense of responsibility for other. And I had to unlearn that. My supervisor early on when I was an intern said something like,
[00:40:26] Charna Cassell: you're doing 70% of the work. That's not your job. It's their responsibility, you know, it should be about like 30, 70 , of course a client comes to you and , you're supporting them, but you're also seeing what lights up in your system and you're working your own stuff along the way.
[00:40:46] Charna Cassell: And of course, usually the, the clients that trigger us or that feel more challenging are the ones that are, are perfect. I call them asshole angels,
[00:40:55] Nick Palladino: Hmm.
[00:40:55] Charna Cassell: You know, giving us the opportunity to see what our growing edge is. And sometimes that's a boundary and sometimes that's a limitation.
[00:41:03] Charna Cassell: It's like, okay, you, you know, you're outside of my scope of practice or someone else could help you better. So unlearning that sense of responsibility where you can have deep care. There's more equanimity versus, I think, of empathy.
[00:41:16] Charna Cassell: Like, pure empathy is actually not that effective. Pure empathy, you're, you know, let's use body work as an example because I also do body work with people. If I just feel into their incredible pain or fear, or if, you know, can feel that sensation in my own body, and I only work with that thing, then I'm amplifying it, rather than getting bigger than it and holding the possibility for, for how it can unfold and holding the bigger knowing that they may not be in, in that moment that they'll, that they're okay.
[00:41:52] Charna Cassell: There is support here. They'll make it through this. Right? If I can hold that, it gives that particular experience something to expand into and out of.
[00:42:04] Nick Palladino: Something I've taught for a long time and practiced in myself while,, while teaching is, is one, what you're saying is. One of my biggest yoga practices has actually been teaching. And what I mean by that is, and not from a selfish way, but of a really watching.
[00:42:18] Charna Cassell: Mm
[00:42:19] Nick Palladino: How, how do I feel when someone says this or wide or like, why am I saying what I'm saying right now?
[00:42:24] Nick Palladino: What part of me is like trying to control or fix or help. And it's like, to be aware of that, there is a double dip happening where the client's being served. And so are you as the practitioner and to watch that. And when these challenging clients come in, it's like, man, they grow the shit out of you.
[00:42:40] Charna Cassell: Mm
[00:42:40] Nick Palladino: Like if if you're willing to grow and what and what I've learned is to shift from empathy to compassion
[00:42:47] Charna Cassell: hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:42:48] Nick Palladino: and like, okay Well, what's the difference?
[00:42:50] Nick Palladino: What is an empathy good? Like well, yes, and it can also be it can also get in the way So I would say compassion is empathy without the attachment. It's the ability to sit with the person say, okay I'm feeling I can see your pain I can feel it and There's nothing that I can inherently do for it. That's your work.
[00:43:10] Nick Palladino: And actually it's the pain. You're feeling is actually perfect. This is exactly what we're supposed to be feeling in the moment. You're supposed to be feeling in the moment to get you to this conversation so that you can grow. And it's not my job to do it for you. My job is to sit here and create the container and wow.
[00:43:27] Nick Palladino: So then you can sit with someone and you've done this. You're a 9am client as a train wreck disaster. Hey, that's perfect. And then your next client is they're getting married or they had a baby. And if you were to follow this energetic kind of rollercoaster throughout your day, well, then at the end of the day, you're going to be an emotional disaster.
[00:43:47] Nick Palladino: So how can we learn to say more in equanimity, right?
[00:43:50] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm.
[00:43:51] Nick Palladino: more at center line of it's all. And I try to sit with, it's all perfect. Whatever the person's feeling and going through is exactly what they're supposed to be going through in this moment or else they wouldn't be. So how do we take that reality?
[00:44:02] Nick Palladino: And then from there. Move forward with it. And it's like, wow, from that space. Perfect. Let's talk about it, but it's not my job to fix it. Well, one, cause there's, there's nothing broken in you. You're perfect. You've just forgot. And two, that's the work of the person who wants to make the transformation. And that's just like, Oh my God.
[00:44:21] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm.
[00:44:22] Nick Palladino: Okay. What do you got? Let's look at it.
[00:44:25] Charna Cassell: You know, the term compassion fatigue, I feel like it should be empathy fatigue
[00:44:31] Charna Cassell: Equanimity or compassion. I feel like there's a little more spaciousness.
[00:44:34] Nick Palladino: Yeah. Agreed.
[00:44:35] Charna Cassell: like a, I can stay inside myself and not get so consumed in your experience.
[00:44:41] Charna Cassell: You know, and I want to be really transparent and admit that lately I have had somebody that I'm working with that I feel really concerned about. And and it, it definitely lights up very young parts in my own system, you know, that the feeling of like, old beliefs and feeling defeated, feeling like nothing's going to help And that level of fear and panic in that little being.
[00:45:11] Charna Cassell: And you know, it's like the, the impulse, the pull, and in therapy, we call it countertransference, right? The countertransference, which is something for us to observe and learn from my impulse to be like, you can stay here, , I'll just hold you all day. You can just come back.
[00:45:27] Charna Cassell: You know, obviously I don't say that, but, you know, it's like, oh, her little system just needs so much holding. And someone has to be in enough of a regulated state to be able to develop that parent part inside of themselves, right? Like we're always, at a certain point, some of us, even from childhood, had to parent ourselves, right?
[00:45:50] Charna Cassell: And your executive functioning has to be online enough in order to cultivate that inside yourself. And so when someone comes and is like, Sleep deprived and in a crisis and all their traumas up. It's really hard for them to do that for themselves and then Being in that space. It's a lot.
[00:46:10] Nick Palladino: That's the compassion piece where you can sit, you can sit in that space and you can help regulate their energy and emotions by your presence
[00:46:18] Nick Palladino: As you're, as you're feeling it right now. I had a student last week who was suicidal to the point where she was taking actions. You know, to the edge and, and this is a student that I, that I, I love, like, I, I, I, I truly love her.
[00:46:36] Nick Palladino: I do. And it was so challenging to be okay in this space, in the coaching space right now, as her, teacher, it's like perfect. This is perfect. Let's talk about whatever's coming up. Okay. And we're in this space and whatever you want to express is fine. And then the part of my personality is it's like, fuck, I'm freaking out.
[00:46:55] Nick Palladino: Like if this person would have like, would have taken a life, I would have been a disaster, you know? Cause I'd have that much love for her. So there was both of those pieces were happening together of here's this witness consciousness that's got it all and it's holding it together and , whatever reaction is perfect.
[00:47:10] Nick Palladino: And the part of my personality that's like freaking out, it's
[00:47:14] Charna Cassell: Yeah,
[00:47:15] Nick Palladino: okay, I can sit with both of those. And those are both realities. You know, and then, okay, then what do I do on the end to on the back end to regulate myself and cleanse myself? And then I talked to her this week and it's like talking to a brand new person
[00:47:28] Charna Cassell: isn't that so wild?
[00:47:30] Nick Palladino: who decided like her life matters and that she's here for a reason.
[00:47:33] Nick Palladino: I'm like, well, then great. Then that experience last week was exactly what we needed. And as your friend, I'm so glad we're still here talking about this. And it's like, man, those are both realities that. You can hold and I don't know if that's for everybody, but that's the kind of work that, that we've signed up for.
[00:47:49] Nick Palladino: Yeah. And it's, it's not easy.
[00:47:51] Charna Cassell: Well, I'm so glad that she's still here and it's so it's heartbreaking. It's really it's really can be devastating at times and You know, what you pointed to, which is something I've gotten a lot of practice with in the last couple of years as some people close to me have died I think of it as having a spiritual perspective and a body based perspective and, and my human self, like one of my best friends died.
[00:48:17] Charna Cassell: Feeling so devastated and the loss and the grief and the you know, all the future times that I imagined I would have with her, feeling all of that. And then from a spiritual perspective, I know that she was done. She was complete. Right? It's, it's perfect. She'd been telling me for years, like I'm, I'm ready.
[00:48:40] Charna Cassell: She'd had a near death experience, which shifted her whole perspective on everything, right? And so knowing those, knowing that, and they may not fit together from a body based perspective, but from the spiritual vantage point, I can kind of see it all as perfect. But the, the suffering is intense and real, and flipping between those two states, it's, it's like a little whiplash sometimes.
[00:49:03] Nick Palladino: I really, I like the, the parts work there then that you brought in with that and that Lance. Cause both of those are realities are true.
[00:49:11] Charna Cassell: Mm hmm.
[00:49:11] Nick Palladino: The spiritual aspect goes, it's all perfect. And the physical aspect goes, no, this is, this is wrong. This hurts. This is, this is too much. And those are both realities that exist together.
[00:49:22] Nick Palladino: So I really appreciate the parts work in that of both of those realities and dualities existing and both being true.
[00:49:31] Charna Cassell: I'm wondering if there's any kind of practice that you would like to guide our listeners
[00:49:40] Charna Cassell: This or anything else?
[00:49:42] Nick Palladino: Yeah, for sure. And as we were talking, I was already kind of, it already came to me.
[00:49:45] Charna Cassell: Please do.
[00:49:46] Nick Palladino: This is how I start any meditation that I, that I'm going to teach her that I do myself and what it is, it's a chance to check in with yourself. and regulate your system in a very quick and easy way.
[00:49:57] Nick Palladino: All right. Go ahead and close our eyes and take a moment here. You can relax your face, your shoulders, inhale in through your nose. Go ahead and take a nice big stress relieving, open mouth, exhale. From here, can either place your palms downwards on top of your thighs to ground your energy or upwards to lift your energy. So down to ground. Up to energize your call, whatever you need, kind of check in with your energy and decide. All right. And now from here, you can begin to find the breath that feels right to you. Not too fast, not too slow, but just right. And let's start to notice in this moment right here, right now, what is the breath that's right for you? How much inhale do you need to fill yourself up to breathe in? How much exhale do you need to release to let go? And then what's that perfect pace or perfect tempo of inhale? And exhale for you, in this moment, right here, right now. If you're finding it hard to find the breath that's right for you, do less, fix less, and allow yourself to relax. The breath that's right for you is looking for you just as much as you're looking for it. And again, how much inhale, how much exhale. What's the right pace? What's the right tempo for you? And then you'll know that you found the breath that's right for you When you feel a sense of release or relief in your mind in your body a sense that everything in this moment right here Right now is happening just as it should be Just as it's supposed to be and take a moment to relax into that relax into yourself relax into presence Perfect. And now from this deeper place this deeper space of presence of awareness Feel free to bring your hands to your heart center And I invite you to set an intention for your day, of how you want to think, how you want to be, how you want to feel, how do you want to show up in the world, and which way is right for you. And you can set that intention in your heart. Big inhale in through your nose, and another nice big open mouth exhale. And when you're ready, you can drop your chin to your chest, seal your practice, and then slowly flutter open your eyes and come back into the space that you're in.
[00:54:23] Charna Cassell: You can take the boy out of the yoga room, but you can't take the yoga out of the boy.
[00:54:27] Nick Palladino: No, you can't.
[00:54:31] Charna Cassell: That was lovely, thank you.
[00:54:33] Nick Palladino: Yeah. And that's, that's how I always start all meditations is a, it's almost a primer.
[00:54:37] Charna Cassell: Mm
[00:54:38] Nick Palladino: Um, and what you may find is sometimes it takes a moment to find the breath that's right for you. Other times it takes five minutes, 10 minutes. There's no, there's no time on that either. And if you can release that, that helps it also happen faster in a way.
[00:54:54] Charna Cassell: and thank you. How can people find you if they want to learn more about you and the work that you're offering?
[00:55:00] Nick Palladino: Yeah. My website is Nick paladino. co. Go there, check out some of the blogs I've got some of the coaching stuff I have. And if you are in San Francisco, my fitness yoga studio is called tribe. We're in North beach. So feel free, come on over and take class. Come check us out.
[00:55:16] Charna Cassell: Are you still teaching yoga at all or that's
[00:55:20] Nick Palladino: I teach on Wednesday nights sometimes, but this is for the last couple of weeks. I haven't, it's the first time in 10 years I haven't taught a public yoga class. And it feels good, which is interesting to say out loud.
[00:55:30] Charna Cassell: Ah, Congratulations.
[00:55:33] Nick Palladino: Thanks.
[00:55:35] Charna Cassell: So good to have you on. Thank you again.
[00:55:38] Nick Palladino: Cool. Thanks so much.
[00:55:40] Charna Cassell: Was that as good for you as it was for me? If it was, we'd love if you'd please rate, review, and share it with your friends so others can find us.
[00:55:50] Charna Cassell: If you have additional questions around sex and trauma, you can submit them at charnacassell. com. Follow us at Laid Open Podcast on Instagram and Facebook and read more about my work at passionatelife. org. You can also sign up for my newsletter. This has been Laid Open Podcast with your host, Charna Cassell.
[00:56:11] Charna: Please join us again next week until then, keep coming.