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One Taste into the World of Cults with Rebecca Farrar, William Winters & Tyson Adams

This week we welcome, William Winters, Rebecca Ferrar, and Tyson Adams to talk about their various experiences with cults or cult-like communities with a special focus on the One Taste community. In case you don’t know, OneTaste is a business that focused on teaching the practices of orgasmic meditation, better known as OM, and slow sex led by Nicole Daedone. Although rooted in the teaching of Eastern philosophy, the central focus was a meditation practice around a man touching a woman’s genitalia. Eventually, it was outed as a cult in the controversial Netflix documentary The Orgasm, Inc. on Netflix.

Tyson Adams is an integrated men’s work practitioner and happens to have done a lot of searches around cults after having his own experiences in different communities. You may also remember @tysonadams_ as a returning guest from Episode 55. William Winters is the founder of the Bonobo Tribe, @bonobotribe on IG, a sex-positive community that throws parties, teaches workshops, and offers general resources to poly people. And Rebecca Farrar is a well-known astrologer better known on IG as @wildwitchofthewest, who also participated in the One Taste courses. She is still integrating and understanding what she took away from her experience there. 

Together we spend an hour dissecting our own experiences, yes, even I have my own experiences with the One Taste community and chat about a variety of things related to One Taste and cults at large. This includes the differences between cults and communities, our natural desire to belong, how to spot a cult, the sense of language or jargon these communities often have, and what it means if you leave the group and ultimately are forced to abandon the community you’ve learned to lean on.

If cults, the brainwashing used by nefarious leaders, and how people become drawn to and eventually a part of cults is something that interests you, this is the episode for you.

Show Notes Hey there welcome back to lead up and podcast. This is your host Charna cosell and today we have a really special episode we have a group conversation that's going to be happening with William winters Tyson Adams and Rebecca Farrar. And I'm going to have them each introduce themselves and talk about why they are here today and what the impact and experience of watching the one taste documentary orgasm Inc on Netflix was for them. And we're going to be having a conversation about the difference between cults and communities how to identify what you may be finding yourself and or how to find communities that feel fulfilling that are sex positive, and what to look out for. So welcome. Would you like to start with William? Sure. My name is William winters. And I am the founder of benevolent at work which is an online community rooted in real world and virtual events where people can learn together and also from one another, about sexuality, pleasure and relationships. We bring people together for events ranging from online book clubs, to in person virtual meetups to big parties, and retreats and picnics. But you know, the point is that we're trying to build a real sense of community among people who identify as non monogamous of some type endorse a positive. So that's, that's what I am up to you. And that's what brings me to the conversation. Thank you. How about you, Rebecca? So my name is Rebecca Farrar. And I have a business called lab Witch of the West, and I'm a writer and mostly a full time astrologer. But I feel like my context of this conversation is so much around my experience of Washington, one taste documentary and being involved in the community for about six years, and really kind of trying on the ways that that, that that shaped me and even shaped the direction my business has gone, as well. So it's certainly still had its influence. Tyson. Yeah, my name is Tyson Adams, I run a men's group here in San Diego. And it is focused around sexual intelligence, I work with two different types of men, I work with men who are going through struggles within sexuality, meaning that they're either addicted to pornography, or addicted, in some form of sexual addiction. And I also work with women as well. That's an interesting one, because, you know, just in general, working with men, and now bridging that gap and working with women, a lot of the women that come to me have gone through a lot of sexual trauma and things of that nature. I also work with men, who are maybe a little bit further along in their stage of development, and maybe are now looking to learn energy practices on how to transmute sexual energy, and move those to the, through the centers of the body and transmute that into other forms of energy. So, yeah, I'm excited to be here. And the main reason why I'm excited is because I study colts, I watch all the cool documentaries, I read all the books, my mentor, Jamie Weil, he's an anthropologist who studies cold and cold behavior. He was a speaker at one taste, and realize that something was not not okay there and left that and has very strong opinions about it as well. So yeah, I'm excited to have this conversation and see where it goes. Yeah, I want to acknowledge that everyone's gonna have different experiences. And there are some really positive things that some people have gotten from one taste, and then there are a lot of stories that suggest otherwise and you know, and so I just want to let there be room for anything that people have have experienced and know that this is someone's individual experience. We're not speaking for everyone. You know the topic of cults, as you kind of pointed to Tyson, there's so many documentaries out there, especially on Netflix, there's a lot happening. And then there's a lot happening in the news with Scientology and Q anon. And there's so much polarity right now, a polarization of people's experiences. And when you're in a religious community, or you're in a cult, or whatever it is, like, this is what you believe. And this is what you see. And it feels so real and so true to you. And I'm so curious about even if somebody finds themselves in anyone can speak to this, like if somebody finds themselves in a, in a community or a cult. And they suddenly go, wait, this doesn't feel right, how do they extricate themselves from that? You know, especially if there's such a strong sense of belonging and a belief system that's shaping them into, you know, being part of a certain world, and then how do they actually leave that? And if you have any thoughts about that? Well, I think the first thing that came to mind is it really depends on how deep you're in. Right? I think, for me why one taste maybe wasn't as traumatic as it has been for other people is that I somehow did maintain a certain level of distance that even though I was involved, I wasn't spending a lot of close time with the people who were running it. I was like, casual acquaintances with most of the people there, rather than like, really connected. And so for me, I think there's these different levels of involvement in any community, that kind of dictate the ease of whether or not you're able to kind of come and go. So I feel like what you're speaking to you though, is when people are really like, fully, it's like their whole community, their whole friend group, their identity. Is that more of what you're? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, and also this, I was watching Holy hell, I don't know if you guys have seen that documentary about what does it Boucherville it was a cult. And it's the people were weeping, even though they know that the leader was regularly raping a number of the members of the community. There was so much grief and losing their family, when when they left and took a stand against being part of that community. Tyson, what have you discovered in your reading and studying around colds? Yeah, I mean, I was I was sort of introduced to cults in a unique way, which was that I joined a men's group while I was in a men's circle six years ago. And coming through that particular experience, the actual person that was leading this had ran a cult from 25 years prior. And he was also a part of the Osho. Colts, that whole movement, while about country if you've seen that documentary. And so, on one hand, you know, he had done his work and come a therapist and was doing work for 25 years, but then there was this dark underbelly. And that had not been addressed, even though he had publicly come out and written about it, it actually hadn't been cleaned up, meaning you hadn't really acknowledged his behavior from his past. And so people from the actual cult from 25 years ago started reaching out to me. And I was kind of in that brainwash state, which was this person's Great. What are you talking about, I don't need to address this. And when I finally got myself out of my own way, and actually started to listen, I realized there was actually no accountability, no cleanup. And one of the things that was used in this particular way of working within men's work was sort of weaponizing status and catharsis against people. So basically, getting them into wild states, where you're screaming, crying, grieving, crying, whatever it is. And then when you're in that state, and you come through that, well, here's the next level, you know, it's $10,000 for the program, and while you're in the middle of your experience, and you're all emotional, taking another financial leap to the next thing, you know, so that is really important what I do, which is, yes, of course, I do embodiment work. And I do work with men in these sorts of ways. But there is no upselling in the moment of some sort of experience that is like a no no when it comes to this stuff. So when I look at one taste, and I look at what I've gone through, I can see a very clear line where these culty behaviors get weaponized in business, whether it's breathwork, or, you know, orgasmic meditation, or whatever, and you've now just been clicked on and hey, we need your credit card now. And you're very susceptible in those particular moments to just be like, Sure, here you go. And you know, and so these, these colts have become businesses now. And so that's what really draws me into this way of being because with that particular community, which was up in Ashland, there wasn't a coal, like he wasn't doing a commune style coat like he did 25 years ago, it was a cleaner coal. Everybody comes in, you do this work, you go home, but there was still a coal, right? So it's important to understand there's different types of culty behavior. Yeah, so that's kind of my introduction. And then I've kind of been on that for six years, just studying it and deeply understanding it and understanding how it happens and why. I saw you nodding and smiling. William, was there something that you wanted to add to that? Well, the thing that comes to mind is the idea of consent, right? Like we talk about it a lot in bubble network. It's one of our foundational principles as a community. And, you know, one of the finer points of consent that we tend to teach our members is that escalating in the middle of it intense experience is real or consent practice because like people are going to be like, Hi functionally on their own like endorphins and dopamine, and then just like a lot more susceptible to like, saying yes to things that they haven't actually, like, actually check in with themselves on figuring out like, am I actually a yes to this. And so something about like PVA of, of good business practices, ethical business practice, also being aligned with like, good interpersonal practice, and like behaving conceptually, that just came up for me in that moment. Mm hmm. And your your your big nod there, Rebecca? Yeah, I just think when you're talking about that, and sensuality, I think that what was actually what was so tricky for me about one case is that it's this practice that seems really consensual, and it is consensual. And at the same time, there's all these other weird boundary things that don't feel consensual happening simultaneously. And that was the distance I think I kept feeling in my nervous system is there's the verbal consent. But the the nervous systems in the room, or actually, maybe not in that same space. And so I think that's an interesting conversation around consent of where is it that people are verbalizing it? It's an intellectual logical consent versus the body being a no. Right? And where's the space for those two to kind of be at odds with each other? And how is that handled when you're in a room with people having to navigate it? Well, what what comes up for me was this visual of even a bunch of teenagers, you know, like, maybe a joint is being passed around, or any kind of situation where there's peer pressure, because you want to belong, and as herd animals as pack animals we naturally want to be part of, and to then feel like, there's an automatic yes, that may occur. But what is your body actually saying, and you actually have to be connected to your body to begin with to even know what is an authentic? Yes. Right. I think a piece of that then is where are the situations where in some ways they don't want you to be connected to your body to be able to make those decisions? You know, that the tricky? Exactly, yeah, that in one toast, there was the listen to your pussy was one of the refrains like listen to your pussy, listen, your pussy, and it's like, letting that guide you. But what about the rest of you? Yeah. Right. Where is their disconnection from heart? Where's their disconnection from head? Yeah, what comes up for me around that is, you know, what, a child or a teenager, you know, if it's a if it's a woman, let's say it's a young girl, she gets abused, her body's gonna respond in a particular way, meaning that the actual, the fluids of the body are going to produce right. So that message listen to your pussy. It's like, Well, if your pussy gets wet, then obviously that's it. Yes. And it's just like, No, you're your body's going to do what it's going to do. That has nothing to do with whether you consent to wanting to do that behavior or not. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. What gets very confusing, in particular with child sexual abuse is, is that you can have an orgasm, or you can get an erection, your body, your physiology can respond to something to stimulation, but it doesn't necessarily mean consent. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I'm just in deep agreement with what you said. Yeah, the idea of like discord arousal, where our bodies are just doing what they're doing to like, take care of us in the moment, you know, so that like, there is like something we can like, hold on to on the other side of like, otherwise a horrific experience or experience, it might like damage us if like, there isn't lubrication, for instance, you know, it's, you know, yeah, I mean, that is just our bodies, doing what bodies do as y'all said, abusing, you know, our COC as the only guide or her policy. Has he hoped the guide just doesn't work. really make a lot of sense. I mean, you know, perhaps, yes, perhaps there are circumstances in which like, that is like useful information that's being added to like, all the rest of these foot formation you're collecting with your other senses, William and I watched the one taste documentary with a group of people that came together to support one person who had been in that community who didn't want to watch it by herself. And so it was a profound experience to watch it as a group and then to have a conversation afterwards. And so this podcast dialogue is born out of really wanting the dialogue that that I'd had with a group of people to be shared publicly, and want other people to have that experience as well. And so I'm curious to hear more about what was it like for you? Because I know for instance, Tyson, you weren't part of the community? What was it like for you to watch it? What do you what did you feel? What did you experience? What? So my experience watching the documentary was interesting, because I'd rather I'd watched the Jeffrey Epstein documentary, which was really a man who was grooming these young girls. And then he had a woman accomplice. And then the way that she described her story was so interesting, because it was her father, who was the abuser, and she was the accomplice, bringing in, you know, young girls to him is the way that she described it in the documentary. So, in the sense, you know, he or she is is a woman in sort of sexual empowerment position, which is why I think that that thing happened, why one case happened, because it was a woman there instead of a man. And I think that I didn't know that I didn't realize that it was a a woman founder. And I can see why it went so far and so fast, because of that particular dynamic. But at the end of the day, what I see is that she hadn't fully moved through her own shit around whatever transpired in her life. And she bypassed it by saying, Oh, you cannot be raped if you surrender and submit 100% to that predator coming at you, like that freaked me out, because, to me, that was her way of describing what she was either taught or what either she had experienced herself. And that was like, where I was like, Whoa, yeah, ik oh my gosh, and my body like kind of started having these weird shakes as I was metabolizing the energy of what that was like for her as a little girl, but then also just how she rationalized it and turned it into what she turned it into. So that was the part that really got me the most, and then how it morphed into the occult, and the dark magic, and all of these other things was indicative of where Scientology and occultism kind of hit America at the same time in the 1900s. And that was kind of like, just ritualistic abuse was really scary. And so that was what came up for me watching it. Looks like you're thinking hard, Rebecca. Yeah, I think it's just the same part that Tyson wrenching, definitely got me but I feel like the second I saw, it's like, I logged in, and then suddenly was the trailer and I just felt so unprepared just kind of like it was an immediate my whole body just kind of was like, what someone made a movie about this. And I'm like, seeing people I know, in the trailer, and I'm seeing the back of my head at a lecture and and just kind of sitting there in shock. And I remember just like, closing the computer right away be like, I can't, I don't think I realized how much was like still in my body around the experience until until that happened. And then I remember closing laptop and then just like kind of meditating for a few minutes coming back to myself, like okay, like, I'm gonna watch this movie right now. And I'm just gonna see what happens that I just kind of sat there a bit in shock around the things that were happening in the background that like I could feel I wasn't necessarily right in there. Like I wasn't at some of those rituals. I wasn't at a lot of those trainings where she was talking about rate those were not the conversation that I was at, I was at like, a lot like the week we lectures where she wasn't going into that sort of territory. I remember one in particular where it was just packed you know, there's like hundreds of people in a space and she was talking about like, the beauty of monogamy and why monogamy so hard is because you have to make a flower beautiful every single day. And I remember just being like, oh my god, like she gets it and so I had a I think just a roller coaster, that entire documentary and then getting done watching it and just journaling for an hour and then writing a blog post about it because I still just didn't know what else to kind of do with the EQ, but also how to really try to integrate the iPod, so many great things from one taste. And I, I'm really working hard on myself not to, to split. You know, like, that's still the journey I'm on is like, I can't just let it as like a call and something bad. And I can't just think of it as something that was really amazing. And so yeah, just holding that complexity is just such a, I think, a moment by moment, practice, still want to taste? Absolutely, I think I think he's saying that is super important. And would you be comfortable sharing some of the benefits some of the things that drew you in? And had you stay for six years? Yeah, I mean, I get so lit up, even when you just mentioned that, Oh, my God, just thinking about the woman I was during those years. I think the biggest thing is that as someone who is a victim of sexual assault and sexual trauma, you know, when I first started, there was something around getting to receive pleasure that just felt like so wrong. You know, I think sexuality for me was so much oriented around the keeping a man happy and making them feel good. And so the fact that I took a class, and I just thought to be pleasure, that I would have these men coming up to ask me to pleasure muse. Wow, this is so new. And I remember just crying at every break during the first class I took with them. I mean, that was like 12 years ago, and just sobbing every break and like not really understanding why. And then I remember when I first started doing the practice, I have this amazing, I have two really amazing memory. The first one is I walked out of oming for the first time, and I was walking down the street, and this man just jumps out of coffee shop. And it's like, Hey, do you want to do you want to free coffee? Come on in. And I was like, Sure, why not. And I just got a free coffee. And I found $10 on the ground. And then I walked into this place where my boyfriend at the time was working. And I walked in and he did it and stamp in the middle of where he was working just there was something about energetically I was like so kind of this like powerful whirlwind. I like shocked him or something. It was so bizarre, I still don't understand what happened. I remember other moments where I would aim my hands at something and I would like Spark electrical lines or like the energy that would move through it that sort of a practice I just had never felt before. And my usual kind of wishy washy, like, I don't know what I won. I don't know what I'm meeting after I would own there was there was no codependent wishy washy was always someone asked me something, I knew exactly what I wanted. I knew I was just in the flow state. A lot of time and so yeah, it's a long answer. But I think for me, the biggest part I got was like embodying my power in a different way, and really filling the parts of me that no, he's like, mode of operation has often been to just not know, and not be comfortable knowing and want not to know. Well, and so that, you know that, that permission to be powerful, that encouragement to be powerful as a woman in the world, and getting to experience the impact of your presence. That's what I heard, you know, it's like, Oh, you're so energetically powerful. And that way, is very seductive. And that's a positive thing. And it's really hard because you're like, oh, this practice, this is a great practice. And it doesn't mean that everything in a community or the leadership, right? And it's like, how much of it is it? Is it like we're going to pull you in and this is actually is very visible in the holy hell documentary. So seduce you in and enhance your, your power, but then what gets taken, you know, after that, and then and where do you get trapped because you don't want to give up the good. But then you have to take the bad and it's, you know, just in any kind of abusive relationship, or even as a child being beaten or abused, you're still loyal and want to be connected to your family, you want to be taken from your home. Right? So there's a tricky setup. It's not black or white. Yeah, it takes me that, you know, most tools on the record, but I think most tools are, like, morally neutral. Like, in the right hands, or like, in the face of sufficient inquiry, we can get a lot just like figuring figuring out like, Yeah, I'm experiencing omitting or like I'm in this like, really intense, like, sexual community environment or, you know, I'm like doing Holotropic breathwork or I'm like doing Ayahuasca like what's here, you know, and like, like facing those intense experiences. These tools with curiosity here can just be like so rewarding and so informative and so powerful. And then, like, in the wrong hands, a crypto these tools can be extremely dangerous, you know, any hammer or screwdriver you can be a murder weapon. I knew people who were involved with the practice of Omi who are like doing the practice of oming inside of another community, the Lafayette, Morehouse world, you know, and never entered one taste. I know that like, there are some people who think that the Lafayette Morehouse is a cult, you know, as well, I think I have not heard the same kinds of stories from its members, you know, about like manipulation, and so on. Like in the face of these tools in this, like other organizations, I'm sure other people might come forward and say otherwise, I'm just like, in my world in the Bay Area, that hasn't come to me. Yeah. Charna, you also watched the documentary and I think you were actually you went to a few meetings. Is that right? I'm curious what your experience was, if you'd like to share a little bit about your personal journey and how the movie affected you? Yeah. So I actually they had just formed, they're just setting up their original space. I think it's like 2004 baby do that. But you know, it was very early on, when I was part of that community. And I went to a number of meetings. And one of the most powerful experiences I had was in witnessing and what they do is an hour long orgasm demonstration. And so there's a woman up there and there's someone who's who's filming her and conducting the energy and I was sitting in the front row and my whole body, I went into a convulsive involuntary, crying orgasmic state. And you know, so everything was kind of like squeezing and unfolding in and like, convulsing shaking, right. And Nicole came over, and she was helping to kind of like, round out my body. And I'd had enough somatic experience and trauma release body work to have some understanding and context for what could be happening. And afterwards, I shared that I felt like I had given birth and that I had been born at the same time. And her and this other guy, I think it may have been Robert Kendall. Like, they functioned almost like this kind of Mother Father imprint, where they were holding me and I felt kind of like I was a baby in this way. And there's this, this overwhelming, my system was kind of in shock from the amount of energy running through my system, but like, Oh, my God, like, I want more of this, I didn't have that, right, I didn't have that imprint of like a mother and a father, a unified family that welcomed me into the world, so to speak. So I could see how seductive that was. And I was like, oh, I want more of this. And then, you know, the calming practice, and, and then I also witnessed, and as I was already seeing clients as just somatic coach, but I had trained a lot in working with trauma and had healed my own. And I saw reenactments and retraumatization of people that were participating in the group and this pressure to participate and override what may have been happening, like, Oh, it's just reactivity. And that ignited the part of me that gets very protective of people. There's always kind of watching the authority figure for for how are they handling and how are they protecting people. And so I took this one woman who was going through a whole trauma response and, and held her and, you know, I was with her, and helping her move that experience through and I just, that was a turning point for me. You know, that was a turning point for for, for seeing that they were not encouraging and listening to people's boundaries. But it was just like, if you have any boundary, it's read as resistance. And that, to me was very problematic. And since you know, my feeling is really, I've witnessed such a range of what people are severely blown out by their experiences, like almost shells of themselves afterwards, like they can eyes super dissociated, right? And unable to even articulate their experience, but I can see they're in their bodies, right. I know, I read people for the last 20 years I've been, you know, I've worked with people around trauma and sexuality. And so what I want to say about that kind of lost my train of thought, I think I started I started to feel into that fakeness and I guys dissociated myself, when you see that there is a lack of consent in that body. And in that being right, and there still hasn't been a reconnection to Earth and who knows how people came to the groups how much vulnerability they were in when they came to one taste, right? Like how fragmented their their systems already were, and how vulnerable they already were. But what I think is very problematic, is that there's no assessment. Like if someone goes to a A guy a medicine guy and says, I want to do this practice, they get assessed, like, is this good for you individually, versus if you're focused on sales and focused on how much money you can make in a community, you're not really being selective about who you let in. And there should never in my belief, I don't believe in Dogma, right? I don't believe in one size fits all, whether it's a diet, whether it's yoga, or whether it's a sex practice, there, there's always a need for nuance, and in different stages of healing call for different practices. And so for there to just be like, This is what we're all doing. Doesn't take into consideration the individual. And that is my primary concern. And there was no responsibility taken there. From what I can see. That was my long winded answer. Yeah. I'll just speak to the hollowness, eyes. Yeah. I went to I was in India for about eight weeks. And I went to Pune where the Osho cult started. And I didn't go in, but I just hung out outside in the bookstore and in the cafe, and you know, they're all garbed up, and they walk in, and it's that same look that you're talking about, you look at their eyes, and you're just like, Whoa, what the hell is going on? Like, I can't locate you, and you can't, you're not seeing me unless I'm wearing the same clothes as you. And it's this weird, fake smile where something's not quite right. You know. And so then when I watched wild, wild country, I was like, Oh, here we go, you get all these wild sex parties, basically, trauma, bonding with sex, and then you got that family connection. And then now we're all bonded, energetically speaking, and we're all interwoven. So now we have family, and then you're easily easy to manipulate, and you're very malleable as a group, when you're in those ways of being and when you had the most extensive and catharsis experiences you've ever had. And now you're, you're ready to follow, follow the rules and, and do whatever. So I see, like what you saw, I saw also, first hand being kind of inside of it, but not in it, and you had to take an HIV test to go in and pay like 200 some dollars just for just to take a peek, you know, and I was like, screw that. I'm not going in that place. Wow. Yeah. I know, someone who, who, uh, during COVID ended up stuck in the Osho retreat in in India. And it was an invisible, it was totally revolutionary for him, right. Like, it totally changed his path. And it was a very positive experience. And so, you know, it's, I really, I do think that there's something about who do we come into a community as, that can make it something that were really vulnerable to? Or it can, you know, we can take some positive things like, I love the oming practice, I'm like, can do the practice, like, Bring it on? Like, that's great practice. I've taught partners how to do it. But again, different from the leadership at which I really do want to talk about that, and different than, like, what are the community rules or agreements that are spoken or unspoken? You know, none of you can see who I'm looking at. But I was just looking at William, who was nodding, yeah. Yeah, I mean, the thing that you said about what the community walls and agreements are really, like, really stood out to me, you know, that, like, I recognize that like, with, but it will not work, the organization, but I found that like, people have just like powerful, life changing socially mediated experiences all the time. And as a result, there is a lot of, like, very dangerous potential for us to like, fuck it up, you know, just like to just like, harm people, or set people up for harming themselves or one another, that we're just like, constantly trying to figure out like, how can we like how can we as a community, not only like, can I just like as a container, take more responsibility for orient towards taking more responsibility? And then how can we also empower our members and like, encourage our members to also be like, taking on responsibility for one another, and not just their own experiences? You know, to that end, I mean, we've done a fair amount of work, developing policies, that email hold, that hold our members accountable to like a certain set of like principles and guidelines, and that also like, hold us as organizers to those same rules and standards, you know, so I like the way that bonobo was set up and played up in a while because I was like my closest, you know, organizational affiliation right now, like we actually have, like an outside, like ombudsman, who is able to receive, like incident reports, you know, about, like me and Misha my business partner. So that like, if people think that like, we are behaving unconventionally, or like violating the sort of standards of spirit of the community, like, there is like an outside person who can like, either mediate the speeds, or in the case of like, you know, more serious allegations, such as a consent violation, like actually, like, institute a set of procedures that involves, like, you know, one or the other of us, like, walking away from the organization for some time and, like, completely and accountability of public accountability process, and, you know, like, that kind of thing. And, and, like, we we do that, because, like, we want to model the kind of accountability that we hope that, like, members of the community will also take and are expected to take, like, when they harm one another, you know, what harm, you know, inevitably happens, because we're people and what we do to each other sometimes, yeah, so, you know, what, I was watching the one taste documentary, I was just like, so taken aback in some ways, and I realized that like, the sort of the extent to which we, like the commonly held understanding about some of the social technologies and accountability have evolved since the like, early and mid ot Slin. One taste was the essence of all being but like, yeah, I was just kind of like, wow, like, here is a person looking at Nicole, who is just like, completely on accountable, you know, and like, there's no one who can or is willing to hold this person accountable, like not her business partners, not, you know, the students, you know, like, though, it seemed like, the only possibility for people who, like wanted, like, redress of harm was to like, leave the community, let's pass. So the bill would shut you down, hoping that maybe Rebecca or China, you can speak to the reality of, or, you know, add complexity to that, like, observation. Yeah, I, it's funny, because at the time, I don't think I realized, just like how no one was holding her accountable. Right, because at the time, I was just so kind of magnetized into her power, and beauty and just everything. But I was interesting when we were speaking about the different documentaries on cults, and I think in almost all of those, there was also conversation around, sometimes cult leaders having people marry each other, and setting up marriages. And I remember that was the moment where suddenly I was like, something is really weird here because couples started getting married. In one case, people who worked in one case together, started getting married and coupling off as like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, where did this come from? And it was obvious, it seems kind of arranged. There would be like, people who, you know, who are both like high up in one taste. And I'm, I'm, I don't think any of them are still married. I'm like, 99% Sure. But that strange accountability, where suddenly Nicole is also dictating a whole life. Yeah, marriage and people. And that was the point where I was like, Whoa, no one's watching this. There's some within the documentary who said something like Nicole gets off on seeing what she can get people to do. And it just took me back to a story. Like I know, a bunch of people, mostly men who lived in the original 1k storm, and they would like, tell me these, like, horror stories about how Nikola be like, You know what, I think that like, your partner is just like, with photo and you know, like, because everyone's like, slept in the same space. Like, if you wanted to be at home, you'd have to be exposed to like, this, like, extremely like triggering thing and like people would like inevitably like, just like, say yes to the, you know, very strong suggestion that like people do people like sleep with each other or like practice with one another or whatever. And, yeah, I mean, it. Again, I mean, like that, that speaks to, like, lack of accountability. And, you know, I, I don't know. I mean, again, I was not deeply involved. In one case, I had like my run ins and of course, I know a lot Have people who were involved with one taste that documentary was going to have, like, my early time in the Bay Area? Yeah, it was like, like hearing those things like, like, this person just really wants to see like, what she can get away with. And then or what you can get people to do. And then, like, hearing those stories, like, yeah, there's like no accountability here. When I was part of the community, there was somebody that would had been living in the house and who was leaving. And it really helped me get some clarity around whether I wanted to leave or not. And this person had a fiance, and they were living together in the house. And he was like, This doesn't feel right, I really feel like we need to leave. And so he was moving out. And Nicole made it a thing of like him or me. And so while they were such, they were so close this woman and Nicole, you know, it was it was it was like, Are you kidding me? You're gonna make me choose between your friendship and this community and my fiance, right? So while there wasn't a forced marriage there, it's like the opposite, you know, and it feels like there's so much reenactment of childhood trauma, and I don't know what was happening with her parents, but the stuff around, you know, a brother who's abusing their sibling, or what a father or mother who's abusing their child will do in terms of, there's a power play there, right? What can I get you to do? Because you still want my love, and you still want to be connected to me. And so I think that that's what gets really hooked in people. Right? Is childhood patterns of having to make those hard choices? Yeah. You know, and it's kind of like the bread crumbing, like, give them a nice nav, and then take, you know, and then do this other thing, and then see how they respond. And do you know, the frog is boiling slowly in a pot. I'm curious. So one of the themes that seems to happen, whether it's a spiritual community, a sexual community, or a cult is that there's people are seeking something that they feel like they're wrong in some way. They're there. They're odd, in some way, that there's something that dominant culture is not serving them. It's not, it's not providing them, they feel like an outsider. And so then suddenly, they find a community where they can fit and be accepted. And so what do you if anybody wants to speak to that, in terms of you know, Rebecca, if you want to say any more about like, what drew you in what you were seeking, if you even knew what you were seeking? Yeah, I think what's important to name is I tend to be somebody who gets pulled into these kind of questionable communities. And I think with one taste, it's funny because for me, it's not actually a sense of belonging, like I feel like what I love is I love having these different groups of people I can kind of pop in and out of and I liked one taste because I didn't feel like they needed me to be super committed, I would disappear for like, a few months, and people would be happy to see me when I got back. But I wasn't involved in the same way where belonging was my motivation. For me, it feels like I what I'm doing is I'm pedestal icing, the desire to pedestal is someone who knows more. That is more of my pull into communities in spiritual communities. Like I've been in ashrams and even like, landmark education, for me the questionable cult energy, when I was there is that, yeah, my motivation has been someone else knows what to do when someone else has the answers. And that's my poll in it's not belonging, or where I was because for me community is something that built over time through repair and rupture. And I that for me, wasn't something I wanted to do that with my friends. I didn't want to do that in a group of people that I didn't know that well, where there was someone you're learning from. I love that last piece of you're saying about repair and rupture being an essential part of the development of community. And that how that ties back to what William you've created, like a distinction there around accountability. And an even you being accountable, not just the people in this community being in bonobo being accountable, and how the amount of safety that gets created inside of that. That's lovely. Yeah, not to ever say that. We create safety or like safe spaces feels like another opportunity to like pet a slice and to like, push off the responsibility for taking care of themselves. I mean, yeah, there's like this duality, right? Like, like people are, I mean, yes. Like, the definition of a community that I love the most is like, it's different from a group in that, like, in a community, you can kind of have the expectation that when things go wrong, people are gonna have your back to a certain extent, but like, at the same time, like there's also this like real individual responsibility to like, use your discernment to like, take a cut, take care of yourself and like They can make the choices and be familiar with their own boundaries and like doing the real work of like self discovery. And so it's like really, really hard because I know that like, you know, we're creating what I think of as, like, a safer community in the sense that, you know, like we have seen, like, we can't ever guarantee that like nothing's going to happen or, or that there will be like, no STI transmission or whatever. But we can like manage risks in certain ways. And I feel like that's what we try to do. Like, I'm always trying to do my best to like, take myself off of the pedestal that people sometimes want to put me on, while also recognizing them no matter what I do. I'm always so common, you know? Well, there's a power thing you're recognizing power differential, right? Yeah. So Jimmy, we all wrote this book, recapture the rapture, rethinking God's sex and death in a world that's lost its mind. And he says, There are countless justifications, many of them unique to each person for trying to fill the God shaped hole in their hearts, or the mommy or daddy shaped hole, or whichever hole they're trying to fill. But there's a more fundamental reason, we're tribal primates wired to seek the silverback among us. So he goes on to talk about Alpha monkeys, and how that basically plays out in sort of these cult dynamics. But he has this really cool thing called the interoception of affective resonance. So basically, when you have somebody who's in a Silverback position, we either want to do one of the four things, we either want to follow them, fear them, fight them, or fuck them. And so his point is, is to be in the middle and to feel and to be in the middle of those four quadrants and to be in the middle and just be with the felt sense of it. And then interoception, which is a tuning to your gut, and knowing what's the appropriate response in any circumstance, where you do have a Silverback, who's leading a particular whatever community will call it, you know, and he talks in this book about what is ethical culture building. So ethical code building versus culty. Colts, you know, how to do it in a way that's effective, so that people actually can make the world a better place as opposed to just bowing down to somebody who's taking every everything and using other people as a means to an end. So, so, so I got to four out of about 20 questions. And there's so much more that I, you know, I wanted to talk with, with all of you about the role that vocabulary and jargon play in cult and community about power about what sociopathy is, and leadership, like how to identify that and you know, and what are the green and red flags? And so if there's an interest in continuing this conversation, this can be part one of a two part episode. And so I will leave that up to you to to consider and then let me know, and thank you so much for your time, and I'm gonna then if you have time, Rebecca, and if you don't, I totally understand, just say where each of you can be found on social media. Yeah, so my main group is on Instagram with wild Witch of the West and Tyson and William, where can we find you? Yeah, you can find me just at Tyson Adams, and then your score on Instagram or Facebook. And you can find me at bonobo Or at bonobo network on Instagram or our underutilized Twitter account. Thank you. Thank you so much for your wisdom and life experience and willingness to have this conversation. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for facilitating, and it was so nice to meet both of you too, and just hear the different experiences of communities but also not being in the one taste and the overlap that was really helpful for me. In order to support the podcast, I've started a Patreon. If you're like me and new to Patreon, it is an opportunity to give back to a person or show that you feel has contributed to your life, wellness and growing wisdom. Today I'm asking you if you feel my existence and the work I do in the world makes a difference. Please show me a tangible offer of your support back. The more people that join the more exclusive content I'll be adding for members only. You can find my T ar e yo backslash la IDOPNPO de Cast To learn more about how you can support our community. 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Show Notes Aline Ra M Episode
[00:00:00] Charna Cassell: Welcome back to Late Open Podcast. During my hiatus from recording , I’ve been building an online course on how to live the passionate, pleasure filled, peaceful life you want, reduce self sabotaging behavior, and gain control over your nervous system. [00:00:14] Charna Cassell: Creating courses for people around the world to understand the impact of trauma on their nervous system and relationships, and how they can heal is something I’ve wanted to do for over a decade. I’m thrilled it’s finally happening. I’ll keep you posted as to when it’s launching. For now, you can also sign up for my newsletter, read my blog, or send questions to be answered at charnacassell.[00:00:38] Charna Cassell: com. Today’s guest is Aileen Rah Em. She’s a spiritual guide, energy healer, teacher, and writer, and her mission is to establish solid foundations for spiritual growth and soul fulfillment. Welcome, Aileen.[00:00:53] [00:01:38] Aline Ra M: Thank you so much for having me, China. Happy to talk to you today.[00:01:43] Charna Cassell: Yeah, I’ve been looking forward to this conversation. And I feel like it’s a important one regarding people understanding what You know, like, I don’t want to, I don’t want to take anything for granted, right? Like, I may know what a spiritual guide is, but I want people who’ve never heard of that or don’t necessarily comprehend what that could be to get it.[00:02:07] Charna Cassell: And so if we could even just start with that, like a basic description of when you call yourself a spiritual guide, what that means to you, because there’s so many flavors out there.[00:02:20] Aline Ra M: Yes, there’s so many different sides of it. It’s as I see it, the main role of the spiritual guide is to help release people from suffering. Now, when we actually go through what that means, we have so many different angles that we could approach that through. I could also say that my job is to help people stay on their path.[00:02:40] Aline Ra M: Or my job is to inspire and motivate people to keep going because it can be a hard path spiritual growth. I could also say that my job is to give people the right practices, the right things for their challenges. For their blockages, because the spiritual guide can assess people’s energy feud and see exactly what they need.[00:03:02] Aline Ra M: So they don’t do random practices that they just read in a book or saw in a YouTube channel that can actually harm them instead of helping them. So I could say all those things, but the core is really to help release people from suffering.[00:03:15] Aline Ra M: This is what all those things, all these different angles. Are doing and it even brings the question of where does suffering come from and we can talk about ego and delusions and desires that are so tied with spiritual growth, which is what I love, but I understand that for some people that can be so abstract.[00:03:37] Aline Ra M: And so far away.
[00:03:38] Aline Ra M: We can talk about helping people stay in their path because it is so easy to get distracted, to have shiny objects, to be afraid and to get out of our path. If we look around us, most people around us are not living in joy. They’re not living their purpose. It is easier to stay out of our path than to stay in our path.[00:04:01] Aline Ra M: The spiritual guide is a person who will help you to stay in your path.[00:04:06] Charna Cassell: And so somebody could ask, well, what does that mean? How would you even know if you were on your path or off your path? So,[00:04:15] Aline Ra M: We know energetically by feeling and by seeing what is happening in a person’s energy field, if the energy field is aligned, if it’s harmonized, what kind of blockages are presenting themselves there. When we have too many blockages, it’s almost impossible to leave our purpose and we need to clear them in order to simply be able to walk our path. [00:04:39] Charna Cassell: I hear what you’re saying but that it may not be as concrete for people. And so an example of here, you know, could be something like, that you’re really attached to staying with this particular person because you don’t want to get a divorce and the stigma that goes along with divorce.[00:04:55] Charna Cassell: And, but then there’s crisis after crisis. You could even be having physical healing crises when you stay in this particular relationship and that may not be part of what you’re aligned with and be on your path. And so to release that and to step away from a certain thing that you’ve been so attached to could actually mean you’re stepping onto your path.[00:05:18] Charna Cassell: Is that an example?[00:05:19] Aline Ra M: could be one thing. And it’s linked to the idea of suffering or simply struggling. Normally when we struggle, we are not in our path. We are struggling against. Our path, because we are not allowing ourselves to accept something. So every time we’re struggling with life, we are out of alignment. And I like to say the life is challenging. We need challenges to grow. So it’s not like sunflowers and rainbows not supposed to be because growth requires us to get out of our comfort zone, but challenge and struggle is. Very different things. We’re not here to hustle, [00:05:57] Aline Ra M: We’re here to thrive by overcoming our challenges. So we can see the energy of struggling, like struggling with our work, struggling with stress, struggling with frustration. All of those signs is that we are fighting with ourselves, we’re struggling with ourselves.00:06:15] Charna Cassell: Right.[00:06:16] Aline Ra M: Yeah.[00:06:16] Charna Cassell: And can you share some about how you came to this path, like some about, concretely about the challenges that you encountered that you overcame that helped you be clear about your path?[00:06:29] Aline Ra M: So I had two main moments in my life that brought me to this path in very different ways. The first one was when I was just a teenager, I was 12, I started being able to hear voices. I started being able to hear things that were not there. And that just was a natural opening. And it was scary.[00:06:49] Aline Ra M: And at the same time, it took me to have curiosity. So that’s how it started. I had a natural opening that Asked me to be able to protect myself because it was not that easy to manage. And it was a not nice things that was happening. It’s not like I was seeing an angel, quite the opposite. So I was like, okay, I need to be able to take care of myself. And the second side is because I had this opening, I had this awareness that was something more. I knew I was not crazy. And then came the question, what the hell is this place? What the hell is this that I’m going through that nobody can see. And they know it’s very real. And that took me to a path of spirituality based on mysticism and occultism of understanding energy, understanding what kinds of energy were there.[00:07:38] Aline Ra M: And it was purely from this point of view. What are these different layers of existence? What is this place? How do I work with energy? How do I do rituals? How do I protect myself? It had nothing to do with personal development. Absolutely zero. So when I was a teenager, what happened is that I joined my first mystery school.[00:07:58] Aline Ra M: So I joined back then the Rosicrucian order. And a few years later I joined Gnosis. So I’ve been on a path, mystery schools, initiation based for a long time, but I never cared about it in terms of personal development and my joy. I was just fascinated by the magical aspect of it.[00:08:17] Aline Ra M: And it was in my late thirties.[00:08:19] Aline Ra M: That I started having a series of breakdowns of seriously hating my life and that took me first to Buddhism. And that started clicking so many things inside of me. Because in a way I already had all the energy from my previous experiences. I just had never put it in such an angle. So when came like this personal development part that I just needed to fix my life.[00:08:47] Aline Ra M: Then it all clicked together and all made sense.[00:08:50] Charna Cassell: You got to apply all the tools that you had been developing.[00:08:54] Aline Ra M: Yeah,[00:08:55] Charna Cassell: Can I ask, so when you were 12 and you were starting to have these experiences that felt scary and new did you have other adults or resources in your life that you could turn to?[00:09:08] Aline Ra M: not directly not in my own place. My, my parents are both scientists. They don’t believe in anything like that. So they don’t know up until now, they don’t really know what happened. I, it was always so clear in me that I couldn’t tell them that it wouldn’t be safe [00:09:25] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Mm hmm. [00:09:27] Aline Ra M: not saying that my parents are bad people.[00:09:29] Aline Ra M: It’s just, they would do what they could in the best reasoning in their loving way is just that would be mostly taking me to medication, which is not what I needed. And they knew even then, back then, my intuition was always very clear on that. At the same time, I was lucky to born and raised in an island in Brazil, where there are many mystery schools.[00:09:53] Aline Ra M: They are hidden. Most of my friends, if I talk to them even up to today, they don’t know about it, but they exist. And so what happened I knew I was supposed to be in a school. I always knew that. I just didn’t know which one. The one back then that I saw everywhere was like Freemasons.[00:10:11] Aline Ra M: I had so many friends being initiated as Freemasons back then, but then it’s only for boys. And I was like, I know there’s something for me. I know it exists, but I don’t know when. And I was having this conversation with like a group of friends. And one of the girls that I barely knew up to then, she looked at me and said, you know, my mom is seeing one of them.[00:10:30] Aline Ra M: I can just ask her and you can join her. And so that is how it happened.[00:10:35] Charna Cassell: Oh, how amazing.[00:10:36] Aline Ra M: I ended up having that support because when I joined then many things started changing.[00:10:41] Charna Cassell: Yeah, it’s so important that piece of having, you know, first of all, like getting to be seen[00:10:48] Aline Ra M: Yeah.[00:10:49] Charna Cassell: and having that mutual understanding and having somebody guide you and then you’re now serving as that guide for people who may not understand what’s happening for them. also really curious, I see.[00:11:00] Charna Cassell: trauma often as a gateway to spiritual awakening and opening and that people who’ve experienced different kinds of trauma there can be this I see it as you Don’t have the direct resource in your family system to be protected or safe, and that often there, it opens this other realm or access to non consensual reality.[00:11:25] Charna Cassell: And I’m curious if that if you relate to that, and if that is part of your story at all in terms of what you think if you look back and go. What contributed to the development or the capacity that I had to see things that other people couldn’t see. Do you have an understanding of that?[00:11:44] Aline Ra M: Well, at the same time, I think some of us actually came for that and that something had to happen for that to open. I don’t see like necessarily that there was a setting that allowed that opening as much as I was supposed to have that opening. And at the same time, the listening to the voices were extremely traumatic for me, caused me to have a lot of insomnia early in my life, even after that was healed, my nervous system took forever to be able to sleep well.[00:12:13] Aline Ra M: So that was very strong in me. So for a long time, I could curse that. I hated those voices. I hated insomnia. But at the same time, it led me to see there was something there. It did its purpose of taking me to my path. So that is more what I see, that those events, especially early in age, have a role.[00:12:35] Aline Ra M: Of taking us to our path because we can always ignore them and it often happens that children when they’re very young. They have this opening and they shut it down in my case. I was lucky to have that in an age that I couldn’t really shut it down. It’s like you’re already 12 to 3. There’s nothing you can do.[00:12:55] Aline Ra M: You’re going to remember this. [00:12:57] Charna Cassell: Right. Yeah, that kids at certain ages may have experiences that they then just don’t even have recollection of [00:13:05] Charna Cassell: that opening. [00:13:06] Aline Ra M: At the same time, it’s like it’s a realm that we don’t fully understand even if we studied so much, even if we’re fully in it, it is full of mysteries. And then for me, I don’t even understand up to now if there was something palpable and concrete that triggered that event, or was that event supposed to happen to be able to open me to my path?[00:13:30] Aline Ra M: I don’t [00:13:31] Aline Ra M: know. I don’t know. Like it’s chicken and eggs. I really don’t know.
[00:13:34] Charna Cassell: Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I was asking. It’s just the sense of like, there are things that make the veil thinner for some people. And often I see that trauma is that. And that what I’m hearing from you is that the actual opening was traumatic and it was hard to integrate and you, your nervous system had to recover from not understanding and being so afraid.[00:13:54] Charna Cassell: And lack of sleep alone is a huge upheaval in people’s lives. And you know, can be so dysregulating, but that there, it wasn’t something specific. There was no precipitating event that, that, you know, led up to this moment.[00:14:11] Aline Ra M: And it is true that some people can go through some trauma that cause openings, like for instance astral traveling that many people report having near death experiences. But sometimes we also have to understand this certain spiritual events when caused by accidents. actually are accidents. They don’t necessarily happen in a good way, that keeps the integrity of the etheric body.[00:14:39] Aline Ra M: Sometimes having those random openings that were caused by accidents and are forceful actually creates trauma in the energetic field as well, and that person will need energy healing. Because that was not the natural connection. That was not a sustainable path. It was a blitz in the matrix, so to say.[00:15:03] Aline Ra M: And that creates fractures that need to be repaired.[00:15:07] Charna Cassell: And is that something that you help people with?[00:15:10] Aline Ra M: Yes, as well, yeah.[00:15:11] Aline Ra M: So it’s very different as well. If we talk about activations and Kundalini activations and things like that, it’s very different. A person who has been on the path of yoga and purification and releasing formigo and creating a container that is sustainable, that can sustain the energy. Who has a strong nervous system to deal with that with somebody who has like one specific event that has an activation, you know, goes to one specific ritual, it can break them apart, it can be too much for them because they don’t have what it takes to sustain that.[00:15:45] Aline Ra M: So I’m more as a spiritual guide, I prefer working with things that are self sustained than direct connections. Which requires us to prepare ourselves to hold that. So it can be a lot of work, but it’s a work that we can sustain throughout our lives.[00:16:03] Charna Cassell: Right. Right. What that brings up for me is thinking about the difference between. Slow regular practice and listening to your own pace, because even Kundalini awakenings can just shatter people. I mean, it’s very disruptive if your system can’t hold the amount of energy that you’ve suddenly conjured.[00:16:21] Charna Cassell: And then it has me think about you know, medicine work is so popular now. Right. It’s at least in the Bay Area. It’s everywhere. And That there are these very intense experiences that, you know, some people in order to create a crack in the ego, they may need a more intense experience, but to assume that everyone needs the same thing.[00:16:43] Charna Cassell: And then what’s the integration process afterwards? And also like the sustained change, right? You’re talking about sustainable change.
[00:16:53] Aline Ra M: Yes, a sustainable change that we can hold ourselves because we are divine. We don’t need intermediaries. We can have people’s help to show certain keys to activate things in us, but we need to be able to hold that we are the container. We are the vessel. So in my way of seeing it, it’s not exactly spiritual growth if we are having like just outsourcing the channel, you know, we are the channel.[00:17:21] Aline Ra M: And I understand as well that many spiritual. Experiences that are extremely powerful in extremely high vibration are not necessarily a drama in terms of excessive energy. And some people are so desensitized that they need an experience that throws them off.[00:17:43] Charna Cassell: right.[00:17:44] Aline Ra M: You know, I mean, the more sensitive you are, like spirit is everywhere, energy is moving all the time. I don’t know how it is for you, but like, get me to sleep in bed, and I’m going to have all kinds of energy flowing with me, like, in one second, I don’t need to do anything. And I’m not saying this to brag, I’m just saying, this is what happens when we are channels, we all can do that, but we need to cultivate that, we need to clear ourselves for that.[00:18:08] Aline Ra M: And looking for shortcuts, of course, if you have never had any contact with this spirituality before, it could be good just to show you it exists, you know? Just to motivate you, inspire you to walk on the path. But that in itself is not a self sustainable path. It is not the connection creating your channel.[00:18:31] Aline Ra M: It is quite the opposite. It can actually burn your channel, making it even harder to create a self sustained connection, because it’s a crazy amount of fire inside of a person who cannot sustain that. So it can actually burn your fuses, making it much harder to create a self sustained connection with the divine.[00:18:53] Charna Cassell: Yeah, and I think one of the things that you said that’s really important is the desensitization that can happen in so many circumstances, right? So whether it’s that you live in a culture where there’s sugar in everything you eat, and then your, taste buds get desensitized to sweetness, or, you know, I worked at a a co op, a worker owned sex toy store and we did a lot of sex education and there’d be porn playing in the back room while we’re eating sandwiches at lunch.[00:19:22] Charna Cassell: And so it’s like these things that you just like, you just get really desensitized to talking about certain things or seeing certain things or and then in terms of, you know, drugs. Or, you know, other sources taking something in, like what you’re referring to is, you know, you can nature in itself, you don’t need to even be on something, but like nature in itself can be the magic can be.[00:19:45] Charna Cassell: There, you can see the energy and have a spiritual experience using your own body, like cleaning your system out very, you know, historically speaking, like fasting and depriving yourself of like, you know, media so that you’re just creating an open space for what is to actually speak to you and communicate with you rather than filling your mind and filling your belly and filling everything so that spirit can’t get in [00:20:14] Aline Ra M: Absolutely. You’re absolutely right. I mean, we’re in a society that is so addicted to busyness, to doing things. And then when people want to connect with the divine, they just add stuff to their list. Go to the ceremony, do this, do that. But in reality, we are all naturally connected. It is more about stop doing the things that are disconnecting us.[00:20:36] Aline Ra M: So it is more about letting go. Letting go of the news. Letting go of foods. Like foods drastically disconnect us if we don’t eat well. So just eating well makes a huge difference in this work. Because your vessel is going to be clean for the connection. So treating our bodies as our temples, doing less, paying more attention, listening more.[00:21:02] Aline Ra M: Everything is relationships. The spirit is constantly communicating with us and so are the elements. So our ability to listen is crucial, but we cannot listen if we’re always busy, doesn’t work.[00:21:16] Charna Cassell: And the people that find you, do you feel like the people that end up finding you, they’re already on a path or they’re at the beginning? Like who are the people that you tend to work with most?[00:21:27] Aline Ra M: I work with different types of people. Some people were really on the path. They just never had like a guide with somebody giving the practices, but they being very serious about their practices in their own way. But I also work a lot with people. They’re just beginning in their path. And I do have clients.[00:21:43] Aline Ra M: For instance, I have exactly the setting that we were just talking about that. Try it out a few different, went to ayahuasca or mushroom ceremonies a few times and got curious and think that they already know quite a bit So I have one program focusing on people who haven’t had a consistent spiritual practice yet For they to create the first blocks of foundations for their practice.[00:22:09] Charna Cassell: And you’re tuning in and specifically creating practices for their system and them because, you know, one person needs to learn how to root down and connect into the earth. Another person needs to learn how to connect up and so on. [00:22:24] Aline Ra M: In one of the programs. Yes. One of my programs would do exactly that in my other program for people who are just beginning. I have a more standard practices that I give all of them. So they understand how certain energetic mechanisms work. and have a toolbox to help them. So when they are panicking, they know what to do, when they need to relax, they know what to do, they understand what purification is, and they can see the ego, which is the most important part for me, to make sure that people who are just beginning can understand what the hell ego even means in practice, because they can see How they are fighting with themselves all the time.[00:23:05] Aline Ra M: And I know that for some people that doesn’t sound interesting at all when they say, but and that’s not how I market the program as well. It is about connection, likeness, and clarity a hundred percent. But it has an effect as well of allowing the person to understand what is out of place. naturally by doing the practices.[00:23:25] Aline Ra M: And from that moment onwards, when they can see what the ego is, then we can do the real stuff.[00:23:32] Charna Cassell: Can you give an example of some of the things that are in your program that help guide someone to be able to be separate enough to be able to see ego and conceive of that?[00:23:46] Aline Ra M: This program is about setting solid foundations for spiritual development and bringing your likeness connection and clarity because this, it absolutely does. So you will be feeling lighter, more connected and clear. So in a way you will get clarity of like, normally people start because they want to have more clarity of what they want, their purpose, their direction, and they will definitely get that.[00:24:16] Aline Ra M: It gets those tangible aspects that people are looking for. It is just that the way it does it, it’s just by showing what is not okay. And so, for instance, many people on this program actually start realizing how much control issues they have. We all think we understand our control issues, but they are so much, like, like, bigger than we think.[00:24:38] Aline Ra M: They hide in so many small things all the time, and control is based on fear. The moment that we can see how we are so scared, everything changes because we just want to get rid of that fear. We don’t want to keep going with that fear, but it’s something that I can talk to people about it. but It doesn’t sound as strong as when you actually feel it, the program allows people to feel it.[00:25:01] Aline Ra M: And that’s when the key turns of what the, like, we always talk about authenticity, like to live our lives fully to be our authentic selves. We all want that. But not necessarily understand what it means there are certain things that we have to be put on the spot ourselves to see how we actually don’t feel safe being ourselves. [00:25:24] Charna Cassell: I mean, I feel like what a spiritual journey is about full self acceptance. know, to be able to move through all the, I’m too much, I’m not enough, I’m not worthy, et cetera and all the ways those stories play out in your family or response to culture or response to religion [00:25:43] Aline Ra M: yeah. That’s a beautiful place to begin if we can. Accept ourselves and acknowledge what we want that we have a beautiful path ahead of us to walk without shame with self love because at the end of the day, self love is the core of every type of growth, be it spiritual growth, be it personal development, be it empowerment.[00:26:08] Aline Ra M: It comes from this place of loving ourselves so much that how could we possibly shut ourselves down. [00:26:13] Charna Cassell: Right, right. And so much of the shutting down and that’s what a lot of my work is about with people is is helping them not shut those places down, not kink the hoses to allow everything to flow through them. But yes, people do shut those things down in order to be acceptable, in order to be palatable, in order to be safe, you know, in, in the process of trying to get love, right?[00:26:36] Charna Cassell: And not get kicked out of the herd.[00:26:39] Aline Ra M: Yeah. And if we can realize that, then it’s great. If we can see that’s what we’re doing, that’s a huge step.[00:26:46] Charna Cassell: And you pointed to this, which is, you know, we can talk about it but to be in the practice is a different thing because until you have that visceral experience, it’s really hard to trust or believe. And then once you have those visceral experiences, which come from practice, then it’s replicable, right?[00:27:07] Charna Cassell: And then it becomes self sustaining versus like some one off mystical. experience or something you’ve read and you conceptually agree with but don’t know how to actually apply.[00:27:20] Aline Ra M: Yeah. Absolutely. Spirituality is so much about liberation as Liberating ourselves from ourselves so that we can be releasing from anything that is not allowing us to accept, to embrace who we are.[00:27:34] Charna Cassell: Right. Right. That’s , also another big piece of the work that I do with people it’s a microcosm. I always, people come to me to work around sexuality a lot, but Your sexual self expression is a microcosm for other parts of your life. And so if you’re shutting a certain thing down, how can it not impact your sexual self expression?[00:27:52] Charna Cassell: And so like, what do you see with people around when they’ve liberated certain things in your program? gIven that sexual trauma is actually so frequent and it’s so common, what have you seen with people you’ve worked with around that?[00:28:09] Aline Ra M: About sexual trauma or[00:28:10] Charna Cassell: Around liberation from, right? In the process Of healing spiritually, how that then can impact your sexual self expression and freedom in that area.[00:28:23] Aline Ra M: I Mean, sexual energy is. completely necessary for any kind of energy work, but sometimes we just don’t realize that. What I see most with my clients is to switch to calmness, to acceptance in terms of patience.[00:28:37] Aline Ra M: That it’s okay. Everything is okay. And focus on what I would like, not focus on what is not okay, on, on the worries and on the problems and on repeating the same self talk that is based on hate and judgment. It’s fine. I see things for what they are.[00:28:58] Aline Ra M: There is no drama,[00:29:00] Aline Ra M: We live in a society that is always Like the emotional reaction like it’s endless reactive emotionally, you know, and people think that this is like being alive and normal. They sometimes people think that people that are a bit impartial and like are kind of distanced and cold. But for me, that is like the purest expression of love. Love that is consciousness. Love that has a big picture and sees the whole thing,[00:29:29] Aline Ra M: Reacting to a small event all the time. [00:29:33] Aline Ra M: Well, it’s coming to this place of awareness.[00:29:36] Charna Cassell: And having more neutrality or equanimity and not personalizing things so much, right? Like that[00:29:45] Charna Cassell: piece. [00:29:46] Aline Ra M: And I’m not overreacting on things. Not as like, this happens, this is good. That happens. This is bad. You know, it’s it is what it is.[00:29:55] Aline Ra M: Then if I can see reality for what it is without judgments, then I can decide how to act on it, to go towards the direction that I want it to go. Not in a manipulative way, but in a neutral way, because we all have powers over all the energies that are around us.[00:30:13] Aline Ra M: And so it’s just understanding our powers and the comparison of our powers with the powers of the universe. We are God. And so we can start acting as such instead of victimizing ourselves or losing our temper or any of other things that happens so easily.[00:30:31] Charna Cassell: When you’re working with someone who’s had a lot of trauma, do you, do, first of all, I guess that’s the first question, do those clients come to you? And if so Shifting out of a victim’s story into being able to, you know, unwind that and see that as an archetype that they’re learning from is its own process.[00:30:56] Charna Cassell: And so I’m curious about your approach[00:30:58] Charna Cassell: there. [00:31:00] Aline Ra M: So, I mean, we all have trauma, not big traumas, of course, they’re big traumas, there’s no traumas, but we all have traumas. I Wouldn’t say that people necessarily come to me for trauma. I’m not like a trauma specialist. That is not what I focus on, but at the same time, what is blocking us?[00:31:18] Aline Ra M: from connection is trauma. So we are always, that is what we’re purifying at the end of the day. The way that I work with people, it’s not like I’m not a therapist, I’m not a psychologist, so I’m not going to talk to people about their trauma. Of course they’re open to share. I’ll be more scanning their energy to understand where it is for what it needs, what is influencing, what kind of practice he needs.[00:31:42] Aline Ra M: My work is. A lot based on practices. I give the people the practices that they need to do to shift the energy so I don’t go through the mind. The mind is not my path. I explain things. I talk to people about things so they understand how energy works because I don’t also don’t want them just to do the practice but not understand what is it that we’re doing.[00:32:04] Aline Ra M: It’s important for me that they have like an understanding even to have a good understanding because there’s so much naivety about how energy works. So to help them create that awareness of what this planet really is. But that’s sad. I don’t stay on the mental level. I don’t try to fix trauma.[00:32:24] Aline Ra M: talking. And most of my clients are actually online. I have some clients in person, some online, a healing sessions online and in person. So even with my online clients, I won’t be just talking. I will be transferring energy. I will be explaining to them their practices. And of course we will talk, but not as a therapist, not to try to solve the problem, just to understand energetically.[00:32:54] Aline Ra M: What is happening?[00:32:58] Charna Cassell: And is there a particular practice that you’d like to lead our listeners through?[00:33:06] Aline Ra M: Oh, I didn’t think about that. I love, there’s a very simple practice that I love and for some people they will say this is not spirituality, but it is in so many different levels, which is [00:33:19] Charna Cassell: Right. [00:33:20] Aline Ra M: So if you close your eyes and just put yourself very lightly with your fingertips around your body.[00:33:27] Aline Ra M: When I’m saying this, that this has so many different benefits. It’s. Suffering to your nervous system, which is so necessary for spiritual growth. The more we grow on this path, the more energy starts going through us. And we need to be able to handle that energy. So, self touch, very light touch with your fingertips. Going through any part of your body. You can go through your face, chest, your legs. Handling with you as you’re listening to my voice. xploring your body for any sensation. Calming yourself. This is beautiful to do in bed. If you’re having trouble falling asleep, just calming. A good five minutes of this at night before you go to bed is and it can also be used in the morning as you come out of bed for self connection, for greeting yourself before beginning the day, coming to yourself. One other reason that I love this practice is that touch is the sense of the heart. Each chakra is connected to a sense. And by stimulating your skin, you also get to clear your heart and bring more lightness into your heart. So for me, this is a practice. Yeah, it works with the heart. It works with the nervous system.[00:35:11] Aline Ra M: It is soothing. It will allow more energy to flow through you because it is soothing to the nervous system. So it has so many benefits. The spiritual practices can be a seat for one hour. Doing a specific thing in meditation, but they can also be light and playful and joyful and exploratory.[00:35:32] Charna Cassell: That’s super important, Swede, and I know you have a book, Bullshit Free Mindfulness, and that you have a bunch of different kinds of practices in there that can be done rather quickly, and that it doesn’t have to be that people go, Oh, in order to meditate, I have to put off, like, Oh, I have to be available for an hour, or, Oh, I have to have the right cushion, or all those excuses that we can make.[00:35:59] Aline Ra M: No, I mean, we are here to live. You’re right. We’re here to live. We’re here to enjoy. And life presents so many opportunities for us to do just that. It’s just that we’re so busy, so caught up somewhere else that we lose these opportunities.[00:36:16] Charna Cassell: Yeah.[00:36:16] Aline Ra M: So for me, a big part is to come back to the small pleasures of life, to appreciating the food we’re eating, our teacup, listening to our favorite song fully and singing along instead of just being a background, [00:36:32] Charna Cassell: hmm. Mm hmm. [00:36:32] Aline Ra M: like paying attention to those things, how we are actually a part of it.[00:36:37] Aline Ra M: Living our lives, the how is as important as the what.[00:36:41] Charna Cassell: Right. It’s one of the things about that practice that I appreciate is that as a child, and I think a lot of people could probably relate to this, you know, there’s a certain age, especially for girls, where we would do that, we would tickle each other’s arms, you know, and even this week in a session, I had a client who was having a lot of anxiety and she was just not conscious that she was doing it, but she was, I brought it to her attention that she was tickling and stroking and it was like, she just knew there’s an innate wisdom in her as there are.[00:37:13] Charna Cassell: Bye. Bye. There isn’t everyone that we know ways to soothe ourselves. We know ways to ground or open our own hearts. And we just may not even realize what we’re engaging in that process. So,[00:37:27] Aline Ra M: Exactly. If we just stop to listen to ourselves and observe what is happening, we’re gonna find great treasures there for sure. [00:37:34] Charna Cassell: Anything else? I know that you also have an eight week program for spiritual development. Is there anything else that you want to share and how people can reach you?[00:37:44] Aline Ra M: I mean, I have quite a few different types of programs, depending on where people are on their path. Regardless, the best way to work with me is to book a breakthrough call. So this is a first call without commitment where I assess your field and give you direction. Even if you’re not working with me after, you still get direction.[00:38:05] Aline Ra M: And if you consider working with me, I’ll see exactly where you fit in the things that I offer. Okay. I give healing sessions. I have online courses, so my website is a full plate, like a full buffet there. So if you go to Elin sorry, elin do com, I think you have it on the show notes as well. So it’s I don’t need to spell here.[00:38:25] Aline Ra M: I have a guide, a free guide called What is Spiritual Growth. which I think it’s a great beginning on this path. It is extremely practical and hands on in its example. So if you go to elindram. com spiritual growth, you can find that. [00:38:43] Aline Ra M: You will also find on my website, a free masterclass to how to connect with the divine. So these are a few of the offers that I have to support you on your path.[00:38:54] Charna Cassell: Beautiful.[00:38:54] Aline Ra M: yeah, the best place to find me is on my website and on YouTube is Alinram as well. All mysteries there.[00:39:02] Aline Ra M: Thank you so much for having me today, Sharon It was fun talking to you.[00:39:05] Charna Cassell: well thank you again. It was good to meet you.

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© 2022 By Charna Cassell, LMFT. Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. MFC 51238.

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