Podcast

Addressing When Your Pleasure Is Neglected With Jessica Graham

This week’s episode of LaidOPEN Podcast features former guest Jessica Graham. She returns to help me answer a listener’s question on the topic of having our pleasure matter in the context of a sexual relationship.

This leads us into an extremely interesting conversation between two sex educators about what sex is, how to be an advocate for your own pleasure, what attunement and connection are, how we can freeze up in a sexual situation or hard conversations, how to become present, and how to practice speaking up on your own behalf when you want your sexual needs to be included.

There’s a lot to learn about ourselves, how we relate to others, and how we treat our own pleasure. A must-listen for anyone who struggles to communicate their sexual needs.

Show Notes Welcome back to late open podcast. This is your host Charna caselle. I've launched a Patreon for my podcast. If you feel you received value from these episodes, you can also get additional bonus exclusive content, such as meditations in depth exercises and behind the scenes info about the interviews and my personal life. All of that more is available@www.pa T ar e o n.com backslash la IDOPENPODZ A S T. By supporting us on Patreon you're not only contributing to the creation of this podcast, you will also provide the support needed for me to work on my book workshops, online courses and additional free content. Today's guest is Jessica Graham. They are a meditation teacher and author of good sex grief and trauma resolution guide as well as the sex relationship creativity and spiritual guide. welcome Jessica So happy to have you back. Bank. Yes. Oh, happy to be back what a total pleasure. And so today we are going to be answering one of our listeners questions. And just to let the listeners know this is something that will be reoccurring, so you can write in any questions that you have that you want answered by me and a special guests, and we look forward to answering them for you. So Jessica, you ready? Here's the question. Lay it on me. Okay. It's almost more like a like a like a letter, like a case study letter. I'm a 24 year old bisexual woman. And I just had the most ridiculous evening the other night and looking love to get your take on it. I've been dating this guy casually for a few months now. But we actually know each other well. We went to high school together. I enjoy him as a person. We laugh a lot. He's a good guy, but he doesn't seem to care at all about my orgasm. I'll cut to it. The other night. We'd had sex for about three to five minutes. He kept stopping and changing positions. It was like as soon as he finally found a rhythm he would stop. It was getting frustrating. So I said I wanted to go smoke a joint. He smokes cigarettes but doesn't smoke weed. I took the smoke break because I wasn't sure what to do. I had already been questioning whether to continue to have sex with him because the last three times there was only focused on his pleasure. When we got back to it, we had sex for two minutes, max. I could see he was struggling to not ejaculate. I said you can come. So we did. And then he just rolled over and it was done. I lay there in disbelief, he said did not ejaculated for a week because he's trying to wean himself from a porn addiction and trying not to masturbate. I shared that I'd masturbated the night before and had had three orgasms. Once he finished. I noted we were on two ends of the spectrum and different states of mind because he wasn't high and I was I had recently had really fulfilling sex with myself and here he hadn't come in a week. He then said Oh, so you're good. Then I was incredulous. He asked. Isn't it better alone? And I said to him, why would I be here? If it was better and the same? I decided I'm done. But I know this guy and I don't want to just ghost him. Do I say something? Should I be honest about why don't want to keep dating him? When you don't want the person to feel attacked? How do you go about having this adult conversation when it's based on what they did? Or did not do? So much so no, I feel like there's like we could go line by line. Yeah, yeah. So the first thing that comes to mind for me is and I certainly have thoughts on that conversation and we'll have that conversation but but I kinda one In a slight start back and move on, if that's okay with you. So absolutely. You know what really occurs to me, it's just this idea of advocating for one's pleasure. And unfortunately, there are a lot of men of all ages, who are not necessarily educated around prioritizing their partner's pleasure like sis hetero men, with people with olbas. That is not like the cisgender. And heterosexual men are pretty much learning, especially at that age are learning through porn. Yep. And as you know, I'm not anti porn, but you know, you need to watch it in an educated fashion, you need to be conscious about it. Otherwise, you're just being like wired and programmed. So it's cool that he's aware of porn impacting him. But, you know, we do have to, unfortunately, educate men a lot of the time. A lot of the time. And, you know, I've stayed in relationships for long periods, because just because the fact didn't have to do that, huh? Because thank goodness, you don't have to do that. Like, you can just like, have that part be easy. But what, what is really important is for us to learn to advocate for our pleasure and 24. She's 24. Yeah, yeah. I mean, 24. You know, you're, that's young. And I think it makes sense to me that at that age, you might not quite be totally comfortable advocating for your pleasure, but you get to learn to be. So I think that's like, number one. If we start with ourselves, if she starts with herself, it's like, okay, how do I want to do this differently in the future? How do I want to set a tone from the beginning, so that I can find out? Is this person at the level like, is this person willing to step into a new way of interacting sexually with me? And you can find that out before anyone's penis is ever inside you? Well, yeah. It says there's something called foreplay. Right? Maybe not. Right? Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, that, you know, that opens. Go ahead. Where are you going to? So no, you please, let's Well, well, yes, for definitely, first, there's this piece of it's a very interesting thing, right? Because I've I love working with women of this age, people of this age, in general, because there's this, there is malleability. You know, and, and I love this idea of planting certain seeds that you just know, it's like, wow, this is going to bloom for the for the rest of your life. And that's a really exciting thing to discover and gain certain tools at this age. Band, someone can be a really strong person. And then in a sexual situation, when it's when you're actively in the moment, because you can even have strong opinions outside of bed. But then once you're in that situation, there can be a freeze. Like the word disbelief can sometimes feel like shock or there, the person's just kind of like, what do I do? What do I say? So I have that kind of feeling? tone? And so, absolutely. And it's like, what are the things that go into first learning how to advocate for yourself? Right? What are the tools you need to gain? What are the practices and and thawing out a freeze, which is a super common thing for people to have is going to really help you be able to verbalize in the in present time, what you're needing and wanting? Absolutely, yeah. 100% the freeze is such a big component here. It's it's a huge factor. And one of the things that I tend to suggest is to have conversations with people you feel safe with so to have conversations with your, your coach or your therapist, I'm amazed by how many people come to me and they're like, I need to see you because I can't talk to my therapist about this. So I'm like, is your therapist like a right wing? Like an like Christian purity person? Like no, and I'm like, Well, you probably can I mean, I'm happy to talk with you about it, but you probably can't talk to your therapist about it. So even in those in those settings, people can feel a bit of kind of freeze come in. So starting by talking about it in spaces or with people where it is maybe still hard but you feel safer. You're not like naked, you know you're like and that's a good place to begin. Just have conversations about sex and about sexual pleasure and to work with your nervous system around that freeze. Not in the moment but but with with a practitioner or even on your own. So for example, something you might try is like and again if you do have a lot of sexual trauma or trauma, get support with this like I I very much encouraged the court around these things that are an exercise you could try on your own if it feels safe and if it feels doable for you is to Sit with the idea of the conversation with Okay, play it out like I am, then I would say to him, I'd like you to go down on me and make me come before you penetrate me. Or I'd like to slow everything down and just kiss? Or can you move your hips slower? Or can we move into this position, or it's really important to me that I, that I, that I climax at least once during any sexual interaction, whatever it is, whatever it is that you're wanting that you're needing to advocate for? Considering that playing that through in your mind, and then notice what happens in your body? Where does the where does the free start to come in, and then you can work with that by bringing in bringing in various resource like, can turn away from the sexuality for a moment and bring in like, what would feel warm, what would feel safe, would just hands on these parts of my body feel good right now would imagining a warm, cozy, soft bed full of like, wonderful blankets and a furry dog, like whatever it would be that would start to warm things up for you. Or maybe there's even a little bit of needing to hide, like, maybe you need to hide under literally hide under some blankets for a few minutes and just be with that experience of allowing the emergency response to complete. Yeah, and you can work through layers of this before you ever have that conversation with a sexual partner. And I tend to find that to be a gent oftentimes a gentler way for people rather than trying to push them to like, I'm going to talk about this, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was all bite with, with or with orgasm, because I had a boyfriend that didn't care. And I faked it every time when I was 14. And then I was like, I'll never do that again. And I didn't, I was like, I will come home, you know? And it was, yes, I advocated for myself. And I'm proud of that, that I did it from a young age, but it was really a lot of pushing through, you know, not a lot of like, actually being present with what was happening. Right? Well, and this, this, the, the hardness to that, versus the irony of like, okay, allowing yourself to be penetrated, but not allowing yourself to be penetrated, you know what I mean? Like, this is going to happen. No, but two different and totally not, you know, it's like the vulnerability. I mean, one of the things it's like, you can think about it as sex is just the most vulnerable area to be vulnerable, right, usually, often for people to make those requests to be tender. And I want to also acknowledge the vulnerable, even though there's so much to unpack with what she was saying, there was something I want to call attention to, which is, he was changing positions constantly. And that was a source of frustration for her. And yet, part of me is like, Oh, poor guy, he was trying to not come immediately. He was trying to manage like this. This just feels good period. It's it doesn't matter what I'm doing. But he kept it sounds like he was trying to manage to last longer, which is its own kind of vulnerable thing that that so many people have penises deal with? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's, I'm so glad you pointed that out. And also like, just the whole that whole side of things like he he is missing information. And he's trying to figure something out. He's like, Well, maybe if I don't watch the porn, or maybe if I you know these things, and that's great. He's He's attempting to, but unfortunately, you know, most of us don't have plenty, not none of us have pleasure based sex ed in school, unless we go to some very cool school, but for the most part, we don't. And so where are we learning? We're not learning, most of us are not learning. That's why it's hard, even for people who've been together for years to have a conversation about sex, because we don't even know where to begin, because it's just not. It's not part of our language. And so it's easy to be like, oh, man, like they don't care about loans. Pleasure. Well, yeah. They've been conditioned not to care about it for 1000s of years. But also they do need help. Yeah. And you guys are not talking to each other about sex. That's right. Unless it's like kind of general as exaggerated, you know, stats, but not the vulnerable stuff, you know, and then the other vulnerable thing is like, okay, so, I mean, he feels very young, right? He feels very young. But there's this piece of, oh, I have enough awareness that I want to stop using porn compulsively. And maybe inside of there, we give them the benefit of the doubt there's awareness of wanting to actually be in a relational space and not objectify. But there's a road to getting there and it's really hard and if he needs to practice lasting, long lasting longer, better to practice on your own through mindful masturbation, then through using someone And as a whole to practice in, because that's what it ends up feeling like when someone is not connected to you emotionally, and doesn't care about your pleasure. Yeah, very well put, yes, I couldn't agree more. And the truth is, is that, you know, I have a fair number of, you know, cisgender heterosexual men that are half are like, I can't, I can't come and half or like come too fast. And with the come in too fast, it's like it actually generally is pretty easy to to address. It really it's it generally isn't that much of a challenge. It's just a matter of being intentional about it. And like you said, using something like mindful masturbation and working with the body, but also with the mind, and also the beliefs around all of it like, yeah, okay, so you came, all right, well, there, you have two hands, you have a mouth, you have a whole body of all this skin, like there's a whole kind of thing that can happen that doesn't involve a hard cop. Oh my god. So this Java rah rah rah, right. So but when we one of the things that we share for listeners who may not know, you know, identified as lesbian, and didn't start having penetrative sex with men until my late 20s. And so, you know, a certain orientation is framed for me in that way. Right. And then, and then for you, I know that I mean, how do you identify at this point? Yeah, I mean, I, I've finally just shifted over to pansexual. Because like, I've been with people of all different, whatever's you know what I mean? And so I know, I always said bisexual and I always really liked that. But I just recently was like, you know, I may as well just go for this one. Because I for whatever reason, I don't tend to call myself queer. So yeah, I call myself queer. That probably be easier. But yeah, but yeah, yeah, I used to identify identified for a period as queer and, and I feel like pansexual in a way is the most accurate description. It's so funny, like growing up without all these terms, right, we didn't have a lot of there weren't a lot of choices. So the juice aisle had two kinds of juice. You know what I mean? It wasn't like 30 different flavors. And I mean, I say all that just to just to give a framework, like we're both sex educators, and that for heterosexual people with penises. The orientation is P IV, penis and vagina that equal sex period. And that it's a totally different experience, no matter how much they say they love eating pussy, or they love having fingers inside you. Like, you're really there is a pretty rigid belief, often that if my penis is not in your vagina, and I don't ejaculate, then we haven't had sex. Yeah, and, and that, to me, while I have compassion for it, it's quite problematic. I feel like if that could become expanded, and healed, as you know, from being like a very rigid belief. So much opens up. Yeah, so much possibility, so much curiosity and so much pleasure for for all people participating. And I think that a lot of straight plava bearing people also have that same belief if they were raised in, right. It's an indoctrination. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, I identify as non binary, I also, you know, I'm she, they, so, woman is cool to like, identify as a woman, I also identify as non binary. But I think when we are talking about specifically this right now, today, it is important that as as much as I want to be inclusive, my language and I and I've, you know, by by me saying people with full buzz, I am attempting to do so. But we also are talking about women, and historically, being objectified, and being being property that they're, you know, did not like how long ago was it not that long ago that men were no longer allowed to rate their wives in this country? You know, how long ago not that long ago that, you know, women were, you know, called hysterical because they were like, upset about something really messed up that happened in their life, you know? Yeah. Like, we we are not that far away. And obviously, what's going on in the country right now, we are very much still in it. And so for me, while I'm being inclusive, I also just want to be really clear that part of this person's question, who's identifying as a woman that she is part of a generation upon generation upon generation of women's pleasure not mattering? Absolutely. And that's, that's a whole thing that, you know, she's carrying inside of her part of what makes it hard to have these conversations. Right. Well, and you know, and there's so much it's like, even that kind of goes back to this piece of like, you could be a really fierce feminist and have strong beliefs about certain and things but then when you're in the sexual situation, the sense of deserving the sense of like giving the guy a break or seeing what happens in like, three sessions deep, or, you know, four sessions deep, however far in there in this, this question, right, she's had this experience repeatedly and it's something hasn't changed. There isn't the awareness that he's bringing. And there's something in her whether it's sexual shame, I mean, it's so common for, for women to advocate for her own pleasure, how quickly that can be turned into a shut slamming situation. And yet, at the same time, so many, in my experience, a lot of younger men pursue older women, because they know what they want, and they can communicate their desires, you know, so it's a real bind. Yeah, it's a real bind. I mean, there's definitely conditioned, I appreciate what you're saying about, you know, inclusivity, as well as like, very real conditioning around being a man and being a woman and men are in a bind around, you know, not expressing their feelings and be a man. But then when they're in a relationship, they're expected to be able to communicate their feelings, right? Yeah. And then women aren't supposed to be slips. Right? You know, they're supposed to be gushing and desiring you all the time. Yeah, like to be soft and feminine and open, even if you don't, you know, care about their orgasm. Yeah, there's so much. There's so much in every in every sense. were you gonna say something? No, no, I'm just sort of like, you know, they're just kind of sitting with how many layers are in this question and wanting to honor the question that's posed? Because, yeah, cuz I know, we're, you know, we're looking at this from a lot of different different angles being it's important, I guess it kind of just want to, like, put out there that once you start advocating for your pleasure, it gets easier. Yeah, it's not always that hard. Right, like, it does get easier. And it also gets easier to step away from things that aren't working, like, yes, quickly, you know, this whole, I've been, you know, single, for the first time, you know, over this past year, and some change. And so I've done some dating, and I've been able to see like, oh, yeah, there's a lot of a lot of people who just aren't a match. And I don't need to go through a whole process, I can just, I know that I know that by the way, my body responds to their scent, or the way that they touch my arm, like, you can start to tune in to this stuff more and more. And it's not about like, you know, you want to be aware of not writing someone off too quickly. But at the same time, life's too short. And your pleasure matters. And it does get easier to advocate for it. But starting you know, by working with your own nervous system, starting with talking to people you do feel safe with but the sooner you can start incorporating it into your sexual relationships with others, the better. The other thing is, I'm all for you want to fuck fuck, like, you want to go for it, go for it. But there's something to be said for taking it slow, when we're talking about learning to advocate for pleasure and learning to even know what we want, right? With a partner and how to how to express that. And so if you don't, if you're, you know, to heterosexual people, or you know, bisexual person, heterosexual person, whatever penis and vagina Sex and the tendency is to go right to penis and vagina sex, like, slow that down. Like, stretch it out, let it let it be something that happens after maybe three sexual interactions, get to know that person's body, you don't want to, in my experience, you don't want to wait too long, because you need to kind of find out if my work, you know, like, if that's something that feels right for both of you, but it's okay to take your time and start to get to know each other's bodies and start to feel more comfortable describing what works for you and what doesn't before. It's just like, Okay, well, now we've had sex. So now this is what we do. Exactly. And now this is the habit that's formed. And this is what I expected. And this is the precedent that's been set. Yeah, you know, I want to I want to come to the baseline question, which is also layered. So you know, part of it's how do you have hard conversations? Right? And so I would like I'd like to answer it in both ways. We know that she's decided, I am done. Like, I just want to end this but I think it's useful to go like, well, what is she'd had this conversation two times ago. Right, like, broaching the hard conversation. What gets opened up? What opportunity is there? And, and sometimes you do you have to wait, the stakes and like some people it's They're not worth your energy and time and you, you know, but at the same time, especially at that age, it's all good practice. Right? At any age, it's all good practice. And only if someone is like really shows signs of a lack of accountability and a lack of empathy, they're not worth your time and energy. But this is, you know, this is someone who sounds like they're a friend, right? After high school together, you care about this person. And yet, there's this really part of the relationship that isn't being addressed. Yeah. What I'm remembering I can, I can read it again. But there's a fear of, of the person getting defensive is what it sounds like. So when you don't want the person to feel tact, how do you go about having this adult conversation when it's based on what they did? Or did not do? Right? So if you're single it is it is, it's like, it's personal, everything. Nothing is ever really personal. But it's personal, right? I mean, that's the hard part, when it comes to. And, yeah, and at this age, unless you're just a very strange person. It's all personal. Like, oh, my God, it's all personal. Unless you like somehow or like meditating from the time you were three, and then you're probably I don't know what you're doing by the time you're 24. But my ego does not count. But that's you, you have not found my clitoris. Right. So yeah, I so yeah, let's, let's say let's say that this was early on, the these experiences haven't all occurred. And she wants to see if there's an opportunity to improve this. I mean, one of the first things that comes to mind, I think it's something that's worth trying is to say I like to climax before penetration. I've used this one before. Yeah, it's great. Because it's a really easy way to express your your needs, and to express your expectations. And to express. I also I want to do the penis and vagina, there's something that like is coming after this. But but this is important to me, for me, because I actually have like, chronic pain that impacts that part of my body. I all that's another reason why I advocate that way. Because I'm like, my body needs to be ready. Even if I think I'm ready. Even if it feels good. Like there. Things need to be relaxed and ready for penetration. And so I sometimes bring that into the conversation. I always bring that into the conversation as well. But even if that's not your situation, just saying like sex feels so much better for me. And generally it does, if I if I climax at least once before we have sex. So that's a sort of fun, easy, simple way to have that conversation. Now, if someone pushes back, I mean, I don't like yeah, like what? Oh, I mean, what's the point of moving forward at that point? Yeah, yeah. No, there's I mean, there are so many situations that where the little the flags go up? And you're like, Yeah, sure. choice point moments. For sure. Yeah, you know, you know, that the tricky part, like one of the things that was in this was she got high, right? I don't have anything against getting high, but just, you know, people aren't as motivated to, necessarily, they're not as energized, let's say, if you're super drunk, or you're super high, to, like, get up and leave a situation, or necessarily think is clearly to advocate for yourself, it's just gonna make it a little harder. Yeah, and I'm not anti cannabis. And I think sometimes it can be a really, it can be a support for some people, that's x but, but in this instance, in the way the letters written, and I could be wrong here, but in the way the letter letters written, it sounds like she felt uncomfortable and unhappy. And that this was a kind of a bit of a of an escape. i There's no judgment there, that's totally fine. But if you're finding you need to escape, in order to engage sexually with someone, this is a this is a flag, right? And this Yeah, well, maybe not like if you're getting high because it's going to make you feel closer or you're going to come harder or whatever it is, or if you have physical pain and it really helps that great totally, but it's like I'm so frustrated and annoyed. I'm gonna go get high in order to come back and do this and that's you know, and yeah, it will make it more it can potentially make it more challenging to to navigate but the other thing I will say is that if some freeze was coming in for her there, which it sounds like it probably was real she probably would have spoken up part of this is is maybe just like trying to move through what was happening at the nervous system level. You know, and I I totally get that I totally get needing to get some relief if there's some sort of low level freeze going on. Even high level freeze going on. But ultimately long term that's not going to get you where you want to go which is like lots of amazing pleasurable, orgasms and sex right So, um, so yeah, I think it can be, I think that can be a bit limiting. And it can also be a signal, right, a signal of like, okay, something's, I'm needing to get up and do this in order to carry on something's not quite right here. Yeah, so there's a, you know, part of it was like, Oh, this is an excuse to take space and think like what's happening and reflect maybe it's also soothing, right, a self soothing strategy. But yeah, if I have to, I remember being 21, and being in a relationship, and it got to be where, you know, pretty much like, in order to have sex with this person, I would get stoned. I remember that experience of like, and it's a very dissociative experience, like, I've also had very connected, you know, a few times connected sex while high. But, you know, in an ideal world, what I wish for everyone is being able to have really connected sober sex, right, like, choice, full choice fully engaged in that way, and be able to be present to all the sensations and emotions that are running through you and be able to communicate them. And in a positive way, you describing your pleasure is going to amplify the pleasure of your partner, and back and forth. And, you know, unfortunately, that's not the case for so many people. But that's really what my prayer would be. And, you know, I think that it's, it's, again, it's a layered question, because there's no excuse me. Like, when is it worth it? To have the conversation and when is it? Right? Yeah, I mean, and I think I think in this case, if, let's say it had been more, let's say, it had been worth it to her, it was something that she wanted to do, you know, especially when it's a friend. Be brave, you know, be brave, and and be kind, right? Like, I think it's easy to be annoyed with someone's lack of really lack of experience, because we're talking about here. And that lack of experience could carry him through his whole life, if nobody has a conversation with him about it, or had often does. Yeah, it does, right. But it might even be a question of like, worth it or not, like, what, in some ways, why wouldn't it be worth it? Like, I guess it wouldn't be worth it? If if you were like, oh, no, I want to get out of here. I made the wrong choice coming home with this person. I'm out. Like, I don't ever want to see them again. Yeah. Other than that, I think it's probably always worth always worth it, even if you don't want to continue a sexual relationship with them. Right? Even even if it's going to come to a close because like you said, there's a aspect of, of the learning that can happen for both of you. But also every single time you are willing to have these hard conversations. There's, you're you're growing, you're expanding your window of tolerance to be able to have those conversations, you know, you're less likely to pop into to freeze or up into fight or flight if you're practicing it. So. Right. Oh, can Oh, please. Yeah, I know, that is such an important piece. Because how do we build capacity, think if you're training for a marathon, right, you're running, it's like, you run a little bit, you know, you run for this many minutes, then you keep training, you run for this many more minutes, and you're building your capacity to be with something that it feels strenuous, and maxes you out. And so we train physically without even thinking about it. But we have to also train emotionally in this way. And, and so, you know, it's like each of those times you turn towards a hard conversation versus avoid it, you build your capacity to to stay in it within and you're doing it for not only this guy, like, hopefully, you know, maybe he learned something for the next person. But then you've also practice having hard conversations, and you can apply that to your next relationship. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's, that's so well put. And I mean, as far as as far as this woman is concerned, I mean, she's made a decision. She's ready to move on. Does she need to get into the nitty gritty of it? All the details as to why? I don't know. I mean, is it as simple as this doesn't feel like a sexual match for me? Could be I mean, he may ask questions. I've had people I've I've said that and then had people want to ask follow up questions. And so I Okay, yeah, let's, let's go let's talk about it. But you don't necessarily have to go in prepared for all the details in the play by play just saying this isn't a match for me physically. That's enough of an explanation and it is a hard enough thing to do like that's already can be really challenging to let someone know when what we might want to do is just dost Yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh, it's such a common part of our culture at this point. I want to come back to a part of this question that I feel like is the crux of it that this is the part that she was like, the was when you know, he orgasm rolled over was done. And when she shared that she had had an orgasm yesterday. He's like, Oh, so you're good then. So I hope you're listening because that laughter is for you. It's solely in resonance with like, yes, that was it was a valid What the fuck? It's a very valid what the book? Like? That's really interesting. It's like I ate dinner yesterday. Oh, so you're good. You don't eat eat today? Not to not comparing the two. No, but no, but yeah, I mean, I think also for us in particular, she's bisexual, like, you are in sexual relation with a woman? Most likely, you're having at least three orgasms. Like I mean, I don't know about you, but like, I've prided myself in bringing a woman to climax at least like seven times. Like that was like kind of like if then then what good what am I mean? Really Mean? Good, am I but like, not everyone is going to climax. Many times. We're our bodies are different. Not everyone's going to climax, right? Like we will respond in different ways. And there's, but but in general, lesbian sex or to people with vulva is having sex, there's a lot of focus. All the focus is on the pleasure and on, you know, a lot, a lot a lot. And so for a guy, especially young guy who is used to like, he comes once and then he's done. The idea of her climaxing three times yesterday, it's probably just like, whoa, like, well, you're probably good for like a week, right? Yeah. Totally. But it's Yeah, but it's totally I mean, it's, it's a ridiculous idea. And it to me it does, it just sounds like very, very, very young. It just sounds very young. Then the next line. I just felt sad like that. I mean, I'm alive. I'm still kind of laughing because of the statement. But then it's like, when he's like, Well, isn't it better alone? I mean, it's, it's twofold, right? There's, like, yeah, sometimes it can be better, especially if you're having sex with someone who is disconnected and not present. Right. And so like masturbating, and being really connected to yourself, could feel better. But if she wanted to do that, why would she go to go over to his place? And her mother to have sex with him? Yeah. And so, you know, if you're looking for purely release and not connection, then yeah, maybe masturbating. And being alone is, you know, is absolutely the ticket. It's certainly simpler. You don't have to deal with another person. Right? God? Oh, my God, emotions and needs. Oh, my God. Sorry. On the processing, and, you know, like, all the things all the, you know, it's like, it's like, yeah, it's also how we evolve and how we connect. Yeah. And believe me, I mean, you know, I'm, I would say, I'm very good at processing. But do I? Is that who I want to spend my time? No, that's not my much. So my activity of choice. Yeah, we do it because we need to in order to be in relationship but exactly, exactly in order to it's like if their needs and they're not being met, if they don't get communicated. You're not a very nice person. Usually, if you're irritated, you're annoyed, just as That's right, is demonstrated in this letter. i That's That's such a good point. Yeah, because it doesn't it doesn't do your partner any favors to hold back your needs without any of them but your sexual needs to like to sit on them to hold them in. It doesn't do your partner any favors, not really. And if they're going to be so defensive, and so hurt that they can't like be in partnership, well, then they have their own work. So you can't really do much about that. Like it's like they need to go and figure that but as far as like holding back what you want and need it doesn't do anybody any favors. And yeah, the being alone thing like I want to add to your prayer, you're young for young people and everyone but that you're only having sex that you want to be having that is as at least as good as being on your own. Like it can be the same level of good but different but it's at least as good and it sucks you want to be having because what's the point otherwise? What's the point? So again, easy Your said than done. I understand it's so complicated. And I certainly have had sex I didn't want to have in my life, especially when I was younger. But you know it, it doesn't need to be that way. And again, coming back to this capacity thing each time you say no to the sex, that is not a match for you, or that isn't a full hell yes. For you. You're you're building, you're building that capacity to, to, to know what you actually want and need and to say yes to what's actually a yes and no to what is happening. Yeah, that, absolutely. So along these lines, is there, there's something that's percolating a little bit for me, but I'm wondering, is there is there an exercise that comes to mind for you, like a five minute practice anything that relates to this question that could support this listener? Yeah, I mean, I think this isn't a five minute practice. But I think it could be important to sit down and do a bit of an inventory of your, of her sex life to go through and to look at, is this a pattern? Is this a pattern of being in relationship, sexual relationship, where her pleasure is not prioritized? And it's ignored? Because if it is a pattern, if this is something that and maybe it's not like looking at how shocked she is, by the way, he's behaving? Maybe it's not, but if it is, then that's something to start looking at within yourself, right? Like, why is why is that? Okay? Like? How are you not prioritizing your own pleasure, sexually? And otherwise? Like? Are you holding your pee to finish up the last few emails, when actually it would feel a lot better to go pee? Are you not, you know, eating a meal, because you know, you, you, you're too busy doing other things and actually be a lot more pleasurable if you've had your body, right. Like, where are these areas where you're denying yourself basic human pleasure, which I think sex is included in. And if that's the case, then start addressing those because that's going to inform how you then communicate. And also, you know, you might, you might start to see other patterns that could be helpful in in how you're communicating sexually. And this is not to say, this is your fault, this happened at all, but we tend to repeat patterns. And we tend to, you know, have areas where maybe we're a little bit more unconscious, so it's a little harder to communicate. And so by just going through and looking at what's my sexual history, what have the common denominator has been whatever the like patterns been, and how might I want to want to look at them. So that's done a five minute exercise, that's more of like a sit down for an hour and like write it out kind of thing. As far as a five minute exercise, I would actually go back to what I was talking about earlier, which is to acclimate to talking about this stuff. And to start with yourself, think out, like, what would I like to say, in a situation where, for example, let's say she wants to start asking partners like, hey, I really like to climax before penetration, sit with that. Imagine saying it, notice what comes up in your body, and then start lovingly attending to what comes up in your body by just bringing in positive resource. And that can be something you just do, you know, do it five minutes a day and see what starts to happen and see if that capacity and that comfort level with communication during before and after sex becomes more comfortable? Yes, that would be my practice. What about you what not? Well, what I would I was also thinking of that from earlier and adding on. In particular, working with the part that might freeze up and go into her head, pay attention to what's happening between your clavicles and your pubic bone. And really noticing what it you know, is there something that gets tight in your body? What has happened with your breath? What's the part of you that may cease up? And can you identify the age? Can you identify the need? What does this part of you actually need? And can you be in conversation with it helps to, you know, often put a hand on that part of the body, a little pressure, a little containment that can feel like safety or security like so when when you create some pressure on the outside of the body, the the internal pressure can start to lessen and be like, Oh, I'm supported. Mm hmm. And so but I would really the the curiosity for me is the different parts that feel reluctant to communicate, and what that's about, and then meeting the need of those parts. Yeah. And you can do this you can journal you can write as like, you're, you're now this, this wise adult part of you that's asking the question, like writing this letter, and then this in seeing like, well, what arises in your body is that and then write out that part and have a dialogue in your journal or directly with your body and go through it that way. Something you can and maybe you Yeah, you've offered So before but something you can add to that journaling process with dialoguing with a younger part of self is switched to your non dominant hand for the younger self, and see what can be quite interesting what comes out when you write with the hands that you're not used to writing with. And for some of you try your toes there. Yes, you lucky people. I wish I had that. I when I was little, I really wanted to be able to like, write with both hands at the same time. Oh, I couldn't, I can't Yeah, I wanted to my mom, my mom called me banana toes, because I've got long toes, oh, that I have not mastered the writing with the dose. You know, I do one last thing I want to say here. And I was kind of the first thing I thought actually, it's just that, you know, I'm I'm sorry, to the to the person with questions. I'm sorry that this happened. I'm sorry that you experienced that. And I, I know that like how uncomfortable and and how much that can stick with you and just not feeling not feeling cared about not feeling prioritized in such a vulnerable space. And so just wanting to kind of just say, like, I know that feeling. And it's not a great feeling. And you know, that I'm just I'm sorry, that happened. And it absolutely can get so much better, can get so much better. 100%. I echo that and wish that. Absolutely. If we could do it over again, I'd be like, put that at the beginning. Because that is the kind of the most important thing is first just like ugh, it doesn't feel good to not feel cared for or thought about. And so that's, you know, we all need that. And we all want. Yeah, and it can sometimes be really vulnerable to admit that when you don't feel like it's on someone's radar. Yeah. And it can also be in some ways, it can be harder with a friend, because I don't quite know how to do it. But it can be harder with a friend because there's already kind of this other sort of intimacy that's there. And there's maybe even sometimes, like a fear of disturbing or distressing that intimacy with this other kind of conversation. And so while it seems like it should be easier with a friend, sometimes it's harder. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, the stakes are higher. You have more to lose than with a stranger that you're like, yeah, not again. Favor. This Ah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And how can our listeners if there's a deep resonance with your wisdom, how can they find you? Yeah, so you can find me at your wild awakening.com is my website and then I'm fairly active on Instagram, which is Jessica Clark Graham. And I have a book out there called good sex getting off without checking out that is sold wherever, wherever you want to buy or borrow your book, because I just recently started utilizing the library. It's amazing. I haven't done it since I was a kid. So you can get at the library jail. And yeah, there's, there's, that's, you know, that's a really that's a really affordable way to to get some of the various practices and things that I do with my clients. So yeah, fantastic. Thank you. Thanks for having me. That's a pleasure, VA so good to see you and you. This is a reoccurring opportunity for listeners to have their questions answered. So please write in any questions you may have and I will invite on previous guests, I think have something of value to offer you. Thanks for joining us today, you make this possible. In order to support the podcast I've started a Patreon where I plan to release exclusive content you won't be able to find anywhere else online. I'll be offering meditations in depth exercises that relate to specific episodes. And behind the scenes info about the interviews and my personal life. You can find my patreon@www.patreon.com backslash, Li D open pod ca st to learn more about how you can support our community. Another way you can support the podcast is by rating, reviewing and sharing it with friends so others can find our community of healing. You can also follow me at late open podcast on Instagram and Facebook and read more about my work at passionate life.org Until next time, may this podcast connect you to new resources and empower you to heal yourself.

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© 2022 By Charna Cassell, LMFT. Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. MFC 51238.

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