Podcast

Who Told you Crying Made You Weak with Mark Tanaka

If Mark Tanaka sounds familiar to you that’s because he’s a past guest of LaidOPEN Podcast and featured on Episode 28. Untying the Knot.

Mark’s a Qi gong and Yoga teacher, who specializes in nervous system regulation, parts-work, attachment coaching and one of my absolute favorite people. This week he returns as an expert to help answer your anonymous questions.

The question this week is about the discomfort we can feel in being vulnerable. Especially, in relation to our significant other and the decision to have children and why we want them. An important conversation for anyone considering having children with reservations based on their own childhood. Plus, as always, we end the episode with an amazing exercise. Mark guides us through one that helps teach us to be with our vulnerable parts

Additionally, if you have a problem or even question you need help with, please write in! I welcome listeners to write in any questions so a qualified expert and I can discuss how to navigate your questions and concerns. 

Show Notes Welcome back to lead up in Podcast. I'm your host Charna caselle. I've launched a Patreon for my podcast if you feel you receive value from these episodes, you can also get additional bonus exclusive content, such as meditations, in depth exercises, and behind the scenes info about the interviews and my personal life. All of that and more is available@www.pa TREON dot c o m, backslash l a i d OPENPO d. Ca St. Bye by supporting us on Patreon you're not only contributing to the creation of this podcast, you will also provide the support needed for me to work on my book, workshops, online courses and additional free content. And this week, we're welcome a guest featured on the podcast last season, as well as one of my favorite people. Mark Tanaka, welcome Mark life is about you star trauma extension is a great honor to size calm. Thanks for having me back. Good to be back. Happy to have you back. I'm just gonna share with our listeners a little bit about you. Mark Tanaka has 25 years of experience in eastern practices, spirituality and healing. Over the past 10 years, he's focused on nervous system regulation work with a special emphasis on Attachment trauma, and repair work. So I'm so glad to have you back to do something a little different today. So instead of having you beyond to really talk about, you know, your story and your work, what we're going to do as answer a question from one of the listeners nice, so I'm gonna read that question go from there. My mom was emotionally and physically distant, not a source of comfort. She was a doctor and worked long hours, it was usually just me and dad. And he was often drunk. Early on, I realized that if I had big emotions, they'd be yelled at or dismissed. So I sucked it up and took care of what I needed to take care of and didn't ask for much. When I cry, I kind of hate myself crying and being sad feels like a waste of time. What's the point? Yet my boyfriend who had been with for over six years, and I do want kids, he's really eager. I worry, I'll be a bad mom. Because neediness and whining bug the fuck out of me. I'm 36. So my window to get pregnant is getting tighter. I know he'll be a great dad. But I wonder if he should do it with someone else. Can I get there? Will I really fuck up my kids? He says he'll support me and be there for me. But I don't even know how to let him do that. Yeah. What was your impression with that with that? There's a lot in there. Yeah. I mean, there's so many parts to it. I feel like I need to like break it down into three episodes. I think you know, one of the things is whether you're female or male, whatever your conditioning is, right? Your cultural conditioning, you can grow up in a family where you have to be tough, and you have to be self reliant. Right. Yeah. And having feelings. I mean, definitely, I've worked with more male clients who literally physically lose the ability to cry. But I've definitely had female identified clients that have spoken these exact words. And so they're it's not it's like, yes, it's gendered. And it's not along gender lines at all. It's really like, what kind of emotional support was there in your family growing up and how much permission was there to have big feelings as this person wrote? There's so much more to say. But what were your you were nodding as I was speaking. I mean, that's, I think when you do deep somatic work with people, which naturally gets you into other childhood experiences, conditioning that emerges from that, you see the thread and the commonality which is that most People who, in adulthood have a hard time with their own emotions or dismissed them grew up in an environment of neglect on an emotional level, right? You did the parents told them, you know, stop being emotional or their emotions weren't responded to or hell, or they weren't shown how to do that and modeled that. So they kind of internalized that parent in a sense, and then they treat themselves in the same way as right. What I was Yeah. And now I guess I was gonna evidentially ask, Well, do you see this commonly in your practice? And also, yeah, it seems like you do. And then the last part, I really resonated which is like, Man, am I am I going to be a good parent? Am I going to screw this up? That piece really fell resonate. And also, I think it's a sentiment that's probably shared by a lot of people, when we had difficult upbringings. We worry that we're going to do the same to our kids. So it's kind of scary to have kids, right. For sure, and I, you know, I think that that's a reason why some people choose not to, I mean, there's lots of reasons to choose to have children and choose to not have children. And, you know, yeah, one of the questions that I had was, you know, how much does this person? Is she agreeing to have a child because her partner wants one and she wants to be with her partner? And how much does she want one, but actually, there's just so much fear around, you know, not being effective, not knowing how to be nurturing. If you don't know how to nurture yourself, it's really hard to offer that to someone else, or, you know, sometimes actually, people can be really good at being super tender with other people. And actually, yeah, they they don't know how to do that for themselves. So it's an interesting, it's not always, but don't you, in your experience, would you say that people who are good at being good to other people, but not being good to themselves? That still leaks over? Right? Leeches out into the relationship in some way. Like, I noticed, all the ways in which I was poor at self regulation, eventually blows up and kind of shows up as different types of stresses on the on the relationship. Oh, Federation's? Right, yeah, yeah. So I could be really kind to my partner, but for my child, perhaps, but when I'm stressed in the background, and they're picking up on it, and being impacted by that, because I'm under resourced. There can still be impact there. Oh, yeah. That one, you know, I can say that my partner doesn't live with me and lives, that's basically long distance relationship. And, you know, when he comes to town, knowing, like, there's certain things that he might really want to do, and like trying to plan things that can be such a setup, where you're like, Oh, I'm gonna do this thing, just right. And you just you're so invested in pleasing somebody else and taking care of somebody else's needs. And I have found that irritability is directly correlated with neglect of your own needs, right? 100%. And, and so if people out there familiar with the Enneagram, which is like a character strategy analysis system, right? Like, there's twos are caregivers, right? They give a lot. And Mike leaves his hand. Hello, hello, Mr. Two, and, and so there can be giving, giving, giving until in there may not be awareness of what your boundaries are, and you may over give. And I think some people think I'm a two I think I'm, I don't think I'm a two I think I'm a three with like a two and a four wing, but I love I love to nurture and take care of. But yeah, it's like, oh, where have I forgotten to? to, you know, feed myself first, so to speak. Right? Right. Absolutely. Or literally angriness is not fun for anybody that definitely has a leaky a leak out impact on people around you. Right? The the thing that I'm also I remember, many years ago, having a client who didn't want to cry, didn't want to be like this messy person at work. And also, like, you know, her own parent, one of her parents, you know, it's, it's so funny how somebody could be totally emotionally flat or tight, and not spilling over. But they really, really fear being that person. And so they hold it all bound in and I'm like, an oak is never going to be a willow and a willow is never going to be an oak. You know what I mean? It's like, that's not the kind of tree that you're ever going to be. Even if you let some of the feeling out. Right, there's there can be this fear of like, if I just let a little out, it's gonna take over everything. Right? Totally. Come on, done. Right, right. And be judged as this messy, emotional being. Like, in a sense, the person's overwhelmed by their the potential of their own need, like the big new city with a tidal wave of unmet need that's going to emerge and take over. Yeah, right. And it's not necessarily a known thing, but that's often And when people are most are avoidant avoidant Lee attached, right? That's the piece it's like the the well is so so so deep. It's like can this ever be met? And and and if and can I dare to let it some of it be met because what if it goes away then I'll really feel the absence and so there's can be so much fear around their own quote unquote neediness. Right, right. It's really funny because I just did a post on this topic Oh yeah, yeah, that was yeah, it's it's such a common experience for people might take on that from working with clients and my impression was that it's often there because the need wasn't met. Yes, right. And so in a sense you were made to feel as if you were too much, or there was something in I think gab or monta said this a while back and one of the interviews I was watching of his on YouTube how the child is inherently narcissistic, in a sense that the child interprets everything that happens to them around them. So to mean something about them, in a sense, meaning like, the fact that their need wasn't met, feels deeply personal to the child in a sense that the child feels like something was wrong with them, or something was wrong with their need. versus what's often I tell people, my clients is actually no, like your need was okay, that's natural, that's instinctual to need these things, and that what was wrong with not their need, or them, but the fact that it wasn't met and attuned to, right. Well, and that's, you know, one of the most memorable things I had a therapist when I was 15, or 16. Say this to me, I remember saying to them, I don't want my parents to be obligated to me. And she was like, Charna, they are obligated to you, right? Like they're your freakin parents, they made a choice to have you. That was their commitment. And but there was something in me that was just like, Oh, I feel like I'm a burden for existing. Yeah. And I don't want to need too much. Because if I do, I'll be resented and they'll go away. Yeah. And then that totally, you know, would play out in relationships. You know, what's insidious about that? It really is like, it's like, how visceral that feeling is like how real it feels. I think for those of us who have that in the body, it's like, it feels like absolute reality. And it's, it's primally, mortifying and terrifying to expose that or share that or let anyone see that. And also exactly what you name and the fact that somehow, seemingly magically, it tends to manifest as a reality in the dynamics of our relationships over and over. Right? Where you do end up experiencing yourself as the too much person because that person does leave or doesn't meet your need, or God forbid, they tell you, you're too much or your needs are too much, right? It's tough. Yeah, it's, I can remember and being in a very different place now. But I do recall the feeling of this fear of disappointment. And then just what would happen in my body, and, like the rage and incredible discomfort around having a need, having it not being met, and then the feeling disappointment that would follow and realizing like, oh, I have all those years where I just didn't have needs. That's what it was like, I was avoiding that feeling. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And it's instinctual, right, I was just reading again Garrett's book the other day. And he was talking about which I'd completely resonate with and I also observed in my, in my work as well, where the visceral pain of disappointment and the repetitive not being met is so painful that the survival mechanism kicks on in the system. And depending on the developmental phase, you start to get that gut wrenching feeling nausea or the numbing out that dissociating or the personality defense right like you focus on other people, you ignore your needs, you do other type of addictive or distracting behaviors to avoid having to sit with the discomfort of the need or the fear of the need not being met with disappointment. Yeah, yeah. And I you know, coming back to this question, I just think about this person who's so afraid of like, oh my God, will I be able to meet the need of this little being right and if we if we take an infant who's crying for instance, like the whole cried out culture Oh, God was problematic you know, and, and what it teaches that little infants nervous system is like, I need you. I need you. I need you. No one's coming. Okay, then there's like this defeat and kind of collapse times and then quiet, you know, just like shutdown, shutdown. And you know, thinking about in an ideal world, we have a parent who has a nervous system that's regulated, and I'm going to regulate your little upset nervous system through my calm nervous system. I'm this big or system and it's like, all all that energy is running through me. And I'm grounding it. And so often that's unfortunately not the case. You have people who don't know how to do what they're doing, why would they know they're a first time parent? You know, I'm just thinking about this mom, this potential mom, right? And were being able to learn and how to self regulate, to first before you become a parent, starting with the young parts that got neglected, right, this young part of me that, like was dismissed or minimized and being able to sit with that, identify that part. See what it needs to offer that time, and empathy to that part of yourself. Right. Right, and be in that kind of practice. And I know, a lot of parts parts work with your clients as well. Want to speak to that? Oh, yeah, I love the way you just put that in. I love the way you brought it back to the question just like God, am I gonna screw my kids up? What am I gonna do, and in, you know, beautifully in her questioning. And in her vulnerable share, she's showing her struggle, which is like the tendency to dismiss one's own feelings and needs. And that's exactly where the care needs to be given in her own system, where I'm which, when she learns how to do that, that will have a profound the therapeutic and supportive impact on her children and her parenting. So in a sense, like parent heal thyself, first, in a sense, right? Hey, it doesn't have to be perfect, but good enough that you develop some nervous system regulation, self regulation, capacity to tune into your feelings and needs start to begin to meet the unmet needs and your child parts. And in the process of learning the skills in meeting those parts of you and calming them down and learning how to attend to them. You end up becoming a better parent. Yeah, yeah. So else, so there's this piece. At the end, he says he'll support me and be there for me, but I don't know how to let him do that. Right? Yeah. Oh, my God, I absolutely know that one. And because sometimes people ask you, what do you need, and it feels blank, because there's this dissociative haze that comes over your brain when you like, what you're asking me about needs. I had a client who would physically say his body would cease, like literally like convulse. When asked, wow, like what he even considered naming any needs or even thinking about his own needs, but beautiful progress out of that into being able to name that with a partner. And so I, you know, it's absolutely possible. But it does take a lot of compassion and patience. And what I would think it's like, micro dosing, receiving. So yeah, and I've done this with people through bodywork where, you know, let's see my hands on their body. And I'm like, can you? How much of this can you take in? Can you feel me supporting you? And maybe it's only 2%. And then slowly over time, their system practicing? Like, how, how do you keep it out? How can you actually open just a little bit more just 2%? More, right? And learning how you close? And how you open to receive? Is it a restriction in your breath that keeps things out? Is it imagining your body turns into cement? His Teflon, like what what is your body made of when you're keeping all of that support out? Often there is support available, but we can't even hear it or see it because we're it's it's it feels threatening? Because again, like it could go away, so I can't let it in. And that's the habit. Right? Exactly. Yeah, beautifully put. I mean, it's almost like a skill that needs to be developed and or the receptors need to get primed and, and exercised again. And you're right. Like it often requires a gradual training and appointing out often, you know, by sometimes it helps to have like a teacher or a coach or someone. They're pointing it out for you. Right, which I think is really so important. And particularly where there is unmet needs. Like if you want to take parts those parts, particularly need help learning how to receive the very thing that it needs. When it's been unmet for a long time. It's like calcified in a sense. So it needs a lot of tender are intentional present attention, and attunement, to be with it, when it arises, to be able to witness that it's here and then provide the contact in a very careful tuned way, like exactly as you said, the part tends to not be able to take it in easily or immediately, even though it's exactly what it wants and needs, the actual capacity to receive it to feel regulated and comforted by it. Even right at first, sometimes for some people, when you first receive the thing that you deeply needed, it's almost dysregulated or uncomfortable. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, I think of I often get the image of a really, really dry plant, and you pour water and it just like goes right through to the bottom is a great example. That's perfect. Yeah, like it can't receive exactly what it needs. And there's also, you know, I can think of a moment in a training that I was in in a Cymatics training a very long time ago, where we were partnering, and we were in groups of three. And we were supposed to ask the PERT you know each other, you take turns saying, this is the thing that I want, this is the kind of way that was so good to be supportive. This would help me feel supported and safe. And the thing that I wanted, made me so upset, you know, I wanted to be held in this guy's lap, like I wanted to be held, and I don't know what I wanted to be told. But I was like, God, I'm not gonna fucking ask for that. You know, so I had one of the people be the part that's like, No fucking way. And then the other, you know, then they're three, three other people. So we're groups of four. And like I was held in his lap, but then I had these two different parts, ie those in those different voices, right, those conflicting parts of me, I often wish that I was doing group therapy, rather than what solo therapy with people for that reason, because there's so much value to, to being able to embody and hear the conflicting parts of us. Because we all have them. Absolutely. That's what the beauty of parts work is, I think, is to be able to really name and recognize these aspects of us. Because often, in a complex trigger certain circumstance, there's multiple layers occurring. And when you can't identify them, or name them, is really difficult to navigate. And it's really confusing. So it gets overwhelming. And once you can get clear on the layers that are actually functioning, like, oh, there's a part of me that's wanting something, and there's parts of me that are fighting it for very good reasons. Right. And that's why there's so much conflict and confusion. Right, right, that that part that's like, No way, you know, it's like a defiant teenage part that was just really trying to keep me safe from potentially being disappointed or humiliated if that person suddenly was like, Oh, you're so needy. Yeah, right. Needs are so deeply vulnerable, are they, particularly when there's when they haven't been met? Right, historically, it creates an intense level of charge and vulnerability around it. And I can definitely relate to that. Yeah, yeah. Coming back to the question. I think about this part, that and I think that, you know, men are just so deeply conditioned around the not crying piece, you can see it in a four year old being yelled at to be a man at the grocery store, which is, like, so painful. And I think about this person who, you know, their own challenge with being with their own feelings. But then how intense that the reality wanting to just validate that. Yeah, that's gonna be really hard. Right? Like, it will be triggering to have a little being that's crying and needs you as it as it said, like meatiness and whining bug the fuck out of me. You know, I mean, that's, it's like, oh, wow, I could hear somebody else's voice obviously, right? Like, mom wasn't there, you know, wasn't warm, and dad was often drunk. So that's probably already a dysregulated dad. Right? Who's Responding to a kid who's needing something, and then that kid really learned, like, you were saying, Oh, I'm just gonna, I'll be my own shutdown valve. Rather than trying to get it from somebody else. I'm just going to stop it before it even comes out. Right, right. And I'll just be like, so that's so obnoxious. Stop it. Like the disdain and contempt in in that phrasing. I get, like I I received some of that. Yeah. So, you know, again, you understand parts work too. And yeah, Punic process like, what's your secret sauce for work and something like that helping someone with that pattern? What would be the antidote? How would you approach that? Whoa, first I really empathize with the protector part that part that's that, you know, there's different ways to work with it right? One is, I might take on that part, that voice if there's a split sense, like this other part that actually is more vulnerable, and does have feelings, even if it's a tiny little quiet voice. And then I would have a dialogue, I would be one of the voices. And I would say all the things and be like, Don't interrupt me, I want to say all the reasons why neediness is is terrible and gross. And there's no point, right? It's just crying as a waste of time, right? Like to really let that be fully expressed, because I feel like the the ways that we get locked is when we keep trying to shut a part down and silence a part. And then it just, it keeps screaming louder. Right. So to so one is to fully engage in allowing that part to speak, and empathizing with, like, what are all the things that part has kept you safe? How that part has protected you and served you? Yeah. And if that part wasn't there, then what would have happened? Right. Right, like just really appreciating the function of that and how, like, it's so I see why you don't want to get rid of that. Like, if given your history, or let's do a reality check of like, so there's this really tender guy that's in your life? And how true is that now? Like, how, what do you actually lose also, by not allowing? yourself to feel? And I would, I would really, I would track what was happening somatically. And if there was a certain thing that was showing up, like if there was a tension in the neck, if it was okay, and there's permission, and I was in person, I would go and I would physically hold their neck, so they didn't have to hold it as rigidly as they're holding it. And I've done this with with someone who had actually this exact belief system and and then it was like, where are these tears coming from? I don't even know, right, just supporting the body in a way that it's had to hold it forever. Right? Yeah, that's, that's profound. It's something I've kind of been noticing a lot in my sessions, too, when the tightness comes on, you know, often, a lot of my clients, even who are pretty somatically aware, when the tension pattern comes up, we know which is the body in the instinct trying to lock something in to prevent it from coming out. Because it feels that, you know, if I express that emotion or need, some bad's going to happen, it's too vulnerable. It's like not safe. So the body will constrict in the throat or in the head or the chest belly to try to kind of keep it in and contain it, right. It's basically an attempt towards containment, that a younger part of us is engaging unconsciously. And often, even with people who are very body centered, the impulse is to try to let let it go or release it, and be like, oh, I need to release it, I need to let it go. And I'll usually make them pause at that point and be like, instead actually try this, which is a different version, but exact same principle, what you're talking about, where I'll have them come into more of an observer aspect of themselves, and then come in and actually engage that holding consciously like, yeah, report it or do more of it, but intentionally in a loving, supportive way. Mm hmm. And then the part that was doing it unconsciously, often will unlock and release. Yeah, right. Because exactly like what you did, which is like, Oh, you're finally coming to that child that's been holding it together be like, hey, there's support here, I can hold this for you, I can support you. So you don't have to do it. Because a lot of these protective tendencies, there are younger parts of us that we're trying to survive with really limited resources, right? themselves only usually alone. So when someone comes in and provides the very thing that they needed, they usually will let go. Right, including in the body, right, the somatic pattern one, line two, and then another part of the body tightens. But no, no, for sure. And I, I am very familiar with that one where like, all suddenly get an intense headache, right? And I've learned that it's like, oh, if I can bring my attention back to my torso and to potentially an emotion that's wanting to be felt, but maybe it felt too overwhelming. It's like, okay, maybe I'll put my attention on attention, some tension in my torso, or put my attention on something that feels really resourcing outside of my body or in my a different part of my body. Then the head can start to release the part that was like, Hey, let me distract you from that big feeling. Nice. Yeah. I'm wondering if there's if there's anything else that comes up and I can I can also read question again. But I feel like I feel like there's been a lot that's been said, there's anything else you want to add about? Well, no, I think that's pretty complete. I feel like yeah, we kind of cover most of the ground there. I think, again, just one or maybe a summary, right, and restate that, when there is a tendency to neglect our own emotions, then based on the experience of early neglect, there is going to be a tendency to neglect our own emotions or feel like our emotions and needs are not okay. Which continues that a pattern of neglect, right, because in a sense, there's a part of us that has internalized that neglectful parent parent. And again, we're not judging that parent, because they probably got that same thing, right? It's intergenerational, but that parent, and their neglect becomes internalized, and we become neglectful of ourselves in some way unintentionally. And we have these visceral aversions to our own emotions and needs. And then that gets transferred over. Because how we feel about needs and feelings internally often will be externalized in our relationship with other people or partners or children. So if we want to be better parents, to our children, again, we have to shift our relationship to our own emotional experience and our own needs, and learn how to become more attuned more compassionate, kind. Right? Right. So so there's a real call to being in gentleness, kindness, practices with your attunement, learning how to do that with yourself and your partner. And it's, you know, I can imagine people who are listeners who are like, I already have a good Oh, my God, what have I done, you know, like, I don't want anyone to like, go and beat themselves up and just know, like, the fact that you're aware of perhaps ways your missa tuning means you're probably ahead of where your parents were. Right? And so it's never too late to start a new practice. And that, you know, kids are actually pretty resilient. Yeah, and it's not too late to correct. And start now, right? It's like, what's okay, what's done is done. Um, and rather than feeling so overwhelmed and defeated, by a negative impact you may have had, you can always start now, I mean, the reality, it's like, if we've all if you and I'm work, like we've survived and made it this far and done all the work on our own as adults. It's like, think about God, if we had a parent, even at five, or 12, he was able to turn towards us and take accountability. Oh, gosh, yeah. be tender. Right. Right. Absolutely. I love that you named those two things. One being the fact that, of course, there's going to be parents who hear things like this. And I've had clients who are parents, when I talk about this stuff, they go into immense guilt, and shame around what they might have passed down to their child, right? I had one client who was terrified of that. That's what what's one of the reasons why she's working with me is because she's so scared of passing on the things that she experienced as a child, and she's phenomenal. What she's doing for her children is amazing. But she still has that fear. Right. So it's so good to name that and reassure that. Yeah, you know, because parenting is such a difficult endeavor. Right? The more I learn this material, the more I have respect for all parents. And, and I just want to send my gratitude and compassion out to all parents who are doing their best. And it doesn't have to be perfect, right? Even though the attachment research tells us that 30% of the time, if you're providing secure attachment cues, the child can end up being secure. You know, you can, you can do a lot and the second piece of repair. My gosh, I was seeking repair with my mother until the day she died. And, you know, it could have happen at any point, right? It's, you're right, it's never too late. And when we're willing and courageous enough to self reflect and move through the guilt and shame and come around and be willing to extend countability and care apology. It could be so powerful. It could be life changing for both the parent and also the child. Absolutely. There's so much in there. I mean, I've cycled through so many, so many times since I was a teenager on forward, like forgiveness, you know, it's like this layer of forgiveness. Now, this layer of forgiveness and forgiving myself as well as forgiving. My parents, you know, and I think that they really need it, you know, I mean, that's a whole other conversation, right? Doesn't mean forgetting it just mean it's like forgiving, bringing all of you into this present moment, all of your energy back to you so that you can live more whole Let's not hijack yourself with your own past, but So who will leather topic for another day? I'm wondering Mark, if there's any practice around this around developing this capacity to be with a part that's really reluctant to feel and be vulnerable. There's any practice that comes to mind that you'd like to share with our listeners, yeah, I could just give some really simple tips and principles that I work with, with clients and with students. So this is a particular part, right? So a particular part you're naming is the part that's resistance to receiving. Or maybe even opening up the motion, right, it's kind of pushing against, I think you actually did a great job earlier to describing some of the dynamics that show up in a part like that. The first thing I like to do is to find the part in the body, because that's where it lives. And very often resistant parts tend to be tense. Alright, so you might look for, Okay, where am I feeling the resistance in my body, and first locating that. So maybe in the head, and maybe in the throat, maybe it's in the chest, right. And then one of my favorite things to do with parts is to talk to them. So a simple script is just squeezing the part and saying, Hello, perhaps putting your hand on the part of the body, and then greeting the part and saying, Hello, I see you. And then perhaps if you can read into the experience a bit, you might just talk to the part and let the part know, Hey, I see that you're tense, and that you're resistant to receiving contact here. Now, as soon as you do that, you one, locate the existence of the part in the body to go into a relationship to the part. So now you're aware of the part versus just being the part, right, which is really important with parts work. And ifs, they call it on blending. But you want to become more aware of the part versus like being the park. And as soon as as soon as you start talking to the park, it kind of sets up that dynamic. Yeah. And then when you start naming, from the observer, you start naming the parts experience. Now, not only are you stepping outside the part, you're starting to acknowledge the park. So now in this relational experience, the parts going, Wow, someone's seeing me. And not only see me, but they acknowledge and they see my experience and understand my experience. And from there when we can accept the part. Okay, I see that you're resisting, receiving that's okay. So acceptance, and then curiosity, what's going on? Why are you resisting? So becomes kind of like a meditation, right? And inquiry process? Yeah, with the part. What's so important about that is not making the part wrong for what it's doing. And not like forcing it to open. Beautiful, right? Like, no, I'm sourcing, really, it's really allowance and acceptance and being with what is and not needing it to be different than it is. Yeah, particularly with protective parts is super important, right? I love that you brought that up, because protective parts are there to help you. And forcing them is just going to make them protective, and more. So we have to be really kind and attune to them. And we have to let them know. So sometimes I'll even have people say, Hey, can you tell you your part that we're here to help? Yeah. And then you know, you may want to not to get too complex, but you may want to notice, is there a part of you another part of you that's there that doesn't like this part that's resisting? Yeah. See it as it sees it as a nuisance? Absolutely, usually part of what's to produce and be efficient and get it. Right, some part of that listen to this podcast and knows that I'm supposed to get rid of this protector part be able to receive right. So perhaps we might ask that part to soften or do some work with that part. And then once that part softens, or if that part is not there, then as you get curious, we can inquire into why this part is doing, what it's doing, why it's not taking it in why It's resisting? Yeah. And when we can start to get the narrative when we can start to get the world, then we can potentially support that part. Right? Because we understand that we have empathy. So let's just say the parts like I'm resisting, because I don't know if this person is reliable. Perfect. So in that case, instead of ignoring that or trying to tell them no, they're reliable, maybe like how do you experience reliability? What's important for you? Oh, that there's consistency for that. They're reassuring, or they're soft, or they talk to me kindly, or commitment, right that I know they're going to be there tomorrow or a week later, right? So then you can start to understand what the deeper layer needs to feel safe with that protector actually needs to feel safe, so they can let go. Right? Yeah. And then we can either provide that more internally somehow. Or we can ask that of our partner or our environment and create that somehow. Right. And then we can create a more of an environment of safety in an attuned way, which actually meets the need to the system, so you don't have to be in production. Again, the protection is there for a reason, right? It's not just random. So what the parts work in the conversating, and the inquiry, right, it's going to the body, going into acceptance, and then curiosity, what that does is that it opens up the dialogue. So you can allow your body in your past history and your child parts to show you exactly what it needs to feel okay to be able to open. Right? And then, you know, you're speaking about emotional openness. But what actually happens in the body is those places of tension will start to soften and open and release. Right? Yeah, there you go. Usually there's an exhale, right? There's like, a dropping down and settling back a little bit. And the energy goes from being high in the body to you know, like, shaders might drop things, the chest softens, the tone of voice might change. The pace of voice might change. Yeah, yeah. I love that. You pointed that out. Because so that's, that's the proof, right? That's the sign that it's working. When so you want to keep track of the body. That's why we work with the body to is because the body doesn't lie. And it gives you really accurate feedback with the body sensations, emotions and nervous system. So when you get the signs of unwinding, then you know you're on the right track. Thank you so much. Yeah, that was awesome. If like this listener, you have an anonymous question that you need an answer to, you can submit them on my website@www.ch ARNACASSELL dot c om, and click on the word ask Charna in my navigation bar, it'll take you to a page where you can anonymously submit a question that I will answer on an episode of this podcast. I look forward to your questions. No, no silly questions, when if you want to, like this listener did include some context. It's really rich and helpful, but it's not necessary. Really. So thank you so much for listening. Thank you for all of your wisdom, Mark. And, and you want to share where people can find you and learn more about the work that you're doing. Yeah, you can always find me on the web mark, Tanaka Mar K. T as in Tom a na K. yoga.com. All right. Thank you. Charna. Bye, bye. Mark and I are looking to collaborate and teach workshops together. So if this interests you, please reach out to me, let me know. drop me a note or subscribe to my website. info at passionate life.org to be kept informed. You can also find mark at Mark Tanaka yoga on IG and Facebook. Thanks for joining us today, you make this possible in order to support the podcast. In order to support the podcast I've started a Patreon where I will release exclusive content that you won't be able to find anywhere else online. I'll be offering meditations more in depth exercises that relate to specific episodes and recent behind the scenes info about the interviews and my personal life. All of that and more is available@www.patreon.com backslash l a i d o OPENPODC A S T. You can go there to learn more about how you can support our community. This has been laid open podcast with your host Charna caselle. Please join us again next week. If this show feels beneficial. we'd love if you would please rate and review it and share it with your friends so others can find us. If you have additional questions around sex and trauma. You can submit them at Charna caselle.com Follow me at laid open podcast on Instagram and Facebook and read more about my work at passionate life.org Until next time, may this podcast connect you to new resources and empower you To heal yourself much love

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