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Curious Girl and the Making of a Sexual Explorer with Layla London

On LaidOPEN podcast this week, we’re welcoming Layla London, better known by her podcast moniker, Curious Girl Diaries, a podcast dedicated to her sexual awakening and adventures. However, she wasn’t always a podcast host. Layla started as a high-powered businesswoman married to her job. After a 3.5-year dry spell from sex, she decided to reprioritize sex by way of a sex bucket list. 

Layla documents all the cumming and going in her podcast. Together we talked about the unexpected benefits and openings her sex bucket list has delivered. Plus, we talk about how her project became a 6-year podcast, how she offers her Sex Bucket List Challenge to listeners and the way she manages unwanted advances, and when men lie about their single status. 

Additionally, we cover topics like commonly asked questions, the pitfalls of being on social media and having a sexually liberated public persona even though she is anonymous, the trials of organizing a threesome, as well as how to spot a married man pretending to be single on dating apps. Turns out, Layla’s more than just a curious girl, she’s your sexual cheerleader who’s living an aspirational life. You’ll find all this and more in this tantalizing conversation.


One of the things I appreciate about Layla London, whom I interviewed for this weeks podcast episode, is that she is encouraging people to step outside their comfort zones. She reminds us, that you do not need to learn to rock climb or go to a foreign city to adventure, you can actually start at home in the bedroom. Layla guides people through a bucket list challenge. You can consider what I am about to share my version.

Offline I was sharing with Layla some fun and sexy ways my boyfriend and I stay connected during fire season. He is a wildland firefighter and day to day may get dispatched to another state or city. One of the playful games that we stumbled into came from him casually admitting something vulnerable on one of our first nights together. He said he has a bad memory and remembers things that never happened. While I could hear this and worry, “Will he remember when I tell him important things, or will he remember things he says he will do?”, instead I asked, “What are some of your favorite moments that never happened between us?” to which he surprised me and shared a beautifully detailed story about finding a cove at a beach protected by rocks. He said, I spread out a picnic for us and it was sunset, and we….” and then he paused, and I instinctually finished his sentence, “We watched the starlings fly in murmuration.” He interrupted me, saying, “Wait, what? No way? No way? How did you know that is exactly what I was going to say. I couldn’t remember the name of those birds.” This created a positive memory, an imprint of delight at co-creating something that could potentially happen or maybe it just exists as a safe romantic fantasy, the first of many. This became a sweet way we’d wake each other in the morning, with a text of a memory, when we are apart.

One of my favorites that I sent him was, “Remember that weekend we canoed down the Russian River with the dogs in their safety vests? We rented that air BnB that had a big blackberry wall. The berries were so ripe that they dissolved between your thick fingers. I was wearing a short sundress and you started by writing messages in the juice on my bare limbs and had me guess what you wrote. You continued until I was stripped bare and my whole naked body was covered in purple and you cleaned me off with your mouth.

For some people, this kind of play will flow. Others freeze up under pressure to be creative or share. Here is a practice to free up your mind, helping to create a wish list of sensation-based, heart-expanding experiences that you may choose to actually play out.

1. Take out some paper and a pen.
2. Make a few columns:

  • Taste, sight, smell, sound, sensation, emotion, location, climate, activity, people you are with
  • Write a bunch of disconnected words that come to mind under each category.
  • Though you may find that whole sentences flow out automatically.

3. Another option is to cut up the words and create piles of each category and choose one from each pile and write from there.

Use your senses to recall details, the smell of the air or your partner, the color of the sky or her skin tanned by the sun, how your body felt electric being next to him, landscapes you have never seen and want to go to, cities you have been and want to return to, activities that are playful and joyful- things you have never tried and feel excited by.

Show Notes

Welcome back to late open podcast. This is your host Charna caselle. Some of you know that my podcast runs the gamut of topics for anyone who’s in a sexually adverse space in here more to learn about trauma treatment, skip this episode, because this guest will be more like a sex positive Firehose squirting all over you. Her content is very explicit, though here not so much and nothing is off limits. So hold on to your or take off your panties. Today. My very special guest is Leila London. She is the host of the curious girl diaries podcast where she shares her own exploratory sexcapades and interviews guests who are equally adventurous and knowledgeable about sex. I was honored to be a guest on her show recently, which will be out in July and it’s great to get to continue this conversation. Welcome Leila. In life is about to start isn’t it great? Brand new. Madden is set.


bank you Charna. So nice to be here. I am excited to have this conversation. When you and I first spoke. It was great. And I’m gonna try to sync that up with when you release this.

Oh, fantastic. Yeah, I know. It’s taken us a minute. And finally the planets are like, this is your time. That’s right. Your time to have a juicy conversation. Yeah, yeah. It’s it’s good timing for me. Because I felt like I was in a, a bit of a sexual drought monogamous relationship with my podcast and working and wasn’t you know, really focused on dating, when we talked and you had different questions. And I was like, man, and now I’m totally smitten with a beautiful man. And so I was like, Yeah, I’m all good. Yay. We’re on the same vibe. Now. I love it.

I love it.

Yeah, yeah. So I’m really curious. That when when you started your podcast, what, what inspired you to do so like what was happening in that particular moment in time that had you go, Oh, I’m having this experience, and I want to share it with the world.

The truth is, it wasn’t really about necessarily sharing it with the world in the beginning, as it was more about memorializing it for myself. Oh, because when I started, my big burning question was, Who am I becoming? Because I was really doing some things that were out side of my comfort zone, and I was really pushing a lot of boundaries. And I really just had this big burning question, you know, a little bit of a fear, like, who does this make me, you know, at the end of this, because I had said, I’m going to put together the sex bucket list, knock things off that list, document it for myself, through the podcast, and the blog. And then after a year, I’m just gonna fade into the background. And that’ll be that, and I’m gonna go back to my normal vanilla life. And, you know, just look back on that fondly as what a great experience. I just didn’t realize the impact, you know, it was or what I was actually opening the door to in myself. So, yeah.

And what was it that was happening in that moment, when you decided to do that self exploration, the sexual exploration for yourself? What was going on? And what had you think this is worth prioritizing? Why then, and why that

I’ve had

pretty much been just, you know, working, working, working, like he just said, married, you know, before we started married to your work, and just everything that was the priority, I’m very much of a type day, when I get focused on something like I hyper focus on it, like a dog with a bone. And what I had done is, you know, I’ve always been just very entrepreneurial, been an entrepreneur, most of my life, my business was just doing great, but I was working really hard. But the reward for that was, you know, the feedback I was getting from the world it was, you know, a lot of money, a lot of praise and admiration from people, you know, they saw me a certain way and I sort of started to identify myself as that person, you know, that’s who I was, that did not include having time for relationships, because that took me away from what I was getting those affirmations. And if I, you know, stopped and took a breath, it wasn’t constantly going going going, you know, then in particular if the ball then something could fall through the cracks. So, I did this for a long time. And then I realized I literally was like a lightning bolt. I kind of have a shower one day, and it was just like, standing from the mirror dragged myself off, you know, kind of check from my bed knowing Yeah, not bad. Okay. Yeah. And then I just thought, Whoa, like, what are you doing? You know, you are wasting the pretty, like, why are you? Why are you keeping all this under wraps? You know, and it sounds kind of funny when you know that I had that realization, but it was also more about, like, why are you shutting off that side of yourself that’s allowing you to connect with another human being, you know, what, what’s going on? And, and so, I at that, at that moment, you know, I didn’t know exactly what was what that was, but I knew I gotta make a change. And so with my business hat on, I was like, well, we got a problem. This is a problem. What we do when there’s a problem, how do we solve it, we need to do X, Y, and Z and make fast action and make it happen. And so very quickly, within 10 days of that epiphany, you know, I had put my bucket list together decided I was going to really overhaul my

sex life and, and give it a year and just have fun and see what happens. That’s it’s so you know, there’s clearly it’s like, the itemized list, the action orientation, you know, action steps, same, exactly solution focused, you know, the thing that I really hear, because so many people, they could identify something, and the fact that you’re like, okay, and a week later this was all happening is people will see something, and they get really stuck. And there’s so much fear, and this whole piece of the loss of identity, right? The thing of like, Oh, God, what, who will I be when this is all over? And what will people think of me? And what will I think of myself? And how does that challenge my beliefs and push my Yes. edges. And, you know, that’s enough to paralyze people from never doing it. Right. Yeah. And I know that you also you’re encouraging people to do their own sex bucket list challenge.

Yes. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, just, you know, you don’t have to have a big, lofty goal about it, but just to have some fun, you know, change it up, I think it’s really interesting that we always set goals for just about everything in our life, whether it’s exercise more, eat better, you know, get a boyfriend, get married, get a husband, you we put all these things on timelines to do lists. We never ever do that with our sex life. And it’s such a vital part of our sexuality. Just such a vital part of who we are. And it’s really been interesting and fascinating to me, as I’ve documented this along the way to see how much of you know, when you when you lead with, with your sexuality, you know, kind of the driver that’s getting you into these situations and meeting people and having these experiences, how it’s changed me, you know, and all the interesting things that’s come out of that, and it’s all been positive. You know, it has, it’s not like, Oh, I’ve turned into this weirdo. Yeah. Just I mean, I guess you could think it’s weird if I know, I’m not, you know, I podcast about it anonymously. But it’s just been, it’s been fascinating. It’s just been, for me this social, wonderful social experiment that I’ve been lucky to do.

Well, and it’s, it’s, you know, two things there. The the beautiful freedom that you have around choosing to do it anonymously, I joked with my friend before having this podcast, which is doing a lot more education. Yeah, I joked with my friend about having an anonymous podcast called COC talk, and where I would get to just share very kind of explicit sexcapades and stories. And of course, I have clients who are listening to this podcast. So, you know, I do feel like I censor myself, my name and my face are associated with it. And so I’m curious for you about the choice to make it anonymous. And, you know, what, do do people, are there other people in your life that do know that you have this going on? And what were the beliefs that you were raised with that would have you maybe really want it to be anonymous for for a variety of reasons, right?

Yes. Yeah, that’s a good question. Okay. So I really believed it was going to be just, you know, the intention was, it’s one year so I didn’t feel like I had to stick my neck out there and divulge you know who I was, and really, the podcast and the blog and everything was more so that I could make memorialize it for myself. And that’s how it started. And then as I bumped along, and it was like, Well, I’m gonna be doing this, you know, longer and I like I would get to the end of the year and people like, you can’t stop, you got to keep going, I guess I could do it one more year, one more year, one more year. And now I’m gonna be now I’m not saying I’m gonna shut you know that every year at the end of the year, I’m not gonna I’m gonna shut it down. But, so as I went along, that I had to kind of consciously make a decision. And it, it, it’s something that honestly plagues me all the time. Because I feel like, you know, on one hand, I’m encouraging people like, hey, you know, this is natural, normal, we don’t have to be ashamed of it. And then on the other hand, I’m like, Yeah, but I’m hiding who I am. You know. So, there’s a, there’s a huge juxtaposition there. And the reasons that, you know, hold me back from revealing who I am is not about being ashamed of it, I am certainly not, it is the fear of, you know, certain areas of my life and things that I participate in organizations, you know, I know, as private organizations, they have a right to deny you to be part of that community. And if they don’t like what you’re doing, and really, you know, that fear has kept me staying, wanting to stay in that safe mode. But I do want to say, again, very clearly that, you know, I’m, I am not ashamed of anything I’ve done or anything, you know, I anything to do with this podcast, I’m actually very proud of it. So that’s,

well, you should be and yeah, you know, the, it’s also being realistic, you know, here we are, where in social media, people can not get a job because of something they put on social media. And so this is a you know, it’s it’s like putting your diary, your literal diary, your detailed diary, so, you know, out there for everyone to potential bosses, etc. And the reality is, we live in a culture where women are slut shamed. And there’s the assumption that if you’re a sexual being, and I think you may have experienced stuff like this to where, you know, I may put sexually explicit posts on my Instagram. It’s not, that doesn’t mean I want to have sex with the men who write to me,

right, just Yes. You know, before right before, maybe like, 15 minutes before we started, I was checking Instagram, and there’s some ding dong who threw a bunch of porn pictures. Yeah, this is opening DM, to me, it’s a woman getting screwed by three guys penises in every hole? And it’s just like, No, not even Hi, how are you? Just like, boom, you know, I lit him up, like, you know what, you open the door for the for the very free three sentences that are coming your way. And I hope that you do better in life after this, you know, like, somebody clearly hasn’t told you. So I’m gonna have to be the one that says this isn’t acceptable. And so I did you know, it was just like, What the fuck? Why are you putting you know, who raised you? What makes you think this is appropriate? Don’t ever send me anything like this again? Send block. Yeah, yeah,

no. And I think it’s a very, I think it’s a very common experience. And I have to say, like, I’ve, you know, I’ve listened to different episodes, where you’ve experienced someone writing to you and being like, you know, will you have sex with me? Basically, because people ask, right, yeah, that’s Jensen. Right. And so yeah, you know, and I thought you’ve actually been incredibly kind and diplomatic. In your responses, you know, like, like, I

depends on if I’m PMS or not.

Well, I you know, what, I think there’s subtle, subtle things, right? Like, yeah, it’s it. I find it particularly unsavory when someone writes to me under the guise of wanting trauma therapy of some kind, and then suddenly sends a dick pic or is totally inappropriate. There is this like, you know, Virgin horror dichotomy? Yeah. And in once you you show quote, unquote, signs of crossing that line into boredom, then it’s like, all bets are off. And it’s like, okay, so this is what I get to do. And this is how I get to relate to you. And this is, this must be what you want.

Right? Right. I know. I mean, it’s, it’s crazy. It’s like, I don’t even like this term, but also I’ll use it because I’m sex positive. For some reason, you know, I don’t know what that even means to be honest with you. But yeah, but people like to use it. I’ll throw it out there. But did you assume that you are open for business, you know, for anybody, like, I don’t have a choice and that I don’t, you know, I don’t have my selection process and that I don’t have to actually, like find some redeeming quality in you before I share my body with you. Right. It’s bizarre. And again, I wonder like, Where does this come from? You know,

well, that’s the interesting thing is if you share these experiences with male friends Still the or even dates, they’re like why eyes do that? Are you kidding? And? And then it’s like, yeah, this is incredibly present in common. Even with even with children, you know, on Instagram. So yeah, I think that there’s, you know, it’s a conversation around consent. And I think that it’s like the mentality of well, she was drunk or wearing a short skirt. She wanted it. The same thing, right? Your, quote sex positive? Yeah. Then you must just want it and you’re not discerning and you don’t have standards. And you know, I joke like, once I’ve shaken hands with a deck, I’m how I’m happy to receive the dick pic. But before that, no,

no, I know. It does nothing for me. And I’m really probably going to be really nasty about my response. You know, like, yeah, like, that’s small.

But you you’re like, I’ve done six years of research and I can tell you, I wrote an article about how to handle dick pics. Like a boss babe. It came just like pouring out of me and fury after somebody sent me a dick pic on Instagram. And, you know, one of my favorite responses is to like, send them another dick pic back. Right, you know, and be like, thank you. I am taken care of. Yeah, yeah. There’s just lots lots of different ways to respond. I used

to have something funny that I do. Yeah. But then I just was too many. I ran out of time. So every time in the day,

oh my god. You have to like hire, you have to hire a dick pic. Managing intern, your likers like, you’re like, Okay, you do my social media, you just handled only the dick pics.

I I did have someone doing that. And I was like, warning, I have to tell you, you’re gonna see some weird stuff coming into my inbox. just block them don’t even have to answer just block if it’s if it’s offensive to you block them. And what I used to do is I used to screenshot it. And then I would scribble little pictures on their penis. And then I would post so that you know, you could cover it up. But you could see it’s a guy sending a dick. Yeah, your roll over it, you know. And I would put arrows and I’d write like nasty comments. And then I would post it with their, with their social handle and be like, This guy’s rude. He’s inappropriate. He needs to be taught a lesson block him, his parents need to be slapped for turning out an idiot. And

it’s one of those moments where you’re like, even if you have Buddhist leanings, you’re like, I don’t know, do I? Do I really want to feel compassion in this moment.

I also, I know, I also let y’all say the last thing I’ll say about it is, I think that people need to sort of if they would put it into the perspective of because this is how I view it. You know, my social media, that’s like my home, in a way. And if you are a guest in my home, you’re expected to act a certain way. And if not, you will be asked to leave rather quickly. And you know, and and so, to come into my home, with your pants down and your dick flopping around, when you’re a guest, you know, isn’t isn’t cool. He wouldn’t do that. You would just walk up to me on the street and just pull it out. So some,

some will, but yes, it’s not okay.

I thought those were just the drunk bums in the park, you know?

Yeah. Sometimes it’s sometimes it’s your stepdad. So you know, I mean, yeah.

That’s true. That’s true. But yeah, so I just, you know, I just handled it. I had the swift and terrible. Like, there’s just no leeway for that. I don’t even I don’t even give anybody a second chance on that one.

Yeah. Well, and so you’ve a couple times said, which I understand where this is coming from? Like, what did their parents teach them? Right? So there’s, we have our parents, we have our, our, you know, some people have religion, some people have their culture. Right, then you have media. And so I’m curious if we turn the question around. It’s like, what did How was sexuality held in your family growing up? What did you learn about it? Yeah.

Well, more than I wanted to, because my mom was one of those moms that was bound and determined to have, you know, to have that open door policy, we’re going to talk about sex ed, you’re gonna hear it all from me so that you don’t have any misconceptions. And you know, anything you want to know about, you can ask me, and I’ll never forget that first conversation. I was in third grade. And my mom had thought that I had heard her and my dad in the middle of the night because I came downstairs to use the restroom. And I mean, I could sleep walk with like a train running through the house, like nothing wakes me up. And so she just thought I heard them and I didn’t. And so then the next day, my mom sits me down. It’s like, it’s time to have the talk. And you know about the birds and the bees, and I was just like her. So she gives me the talk. And I was just like, and asked me to hang out, you know, I think she was hoping I’d wanted it would be this wonderful, like funding. Yeah, thank you so much. I’ve had so many Questions burning on my nine year old mind? And I was just like, Okay, are we can we go to Taco Bell now because this was disrupting Taco Bell we were on our way to talk about and we never got to eat junk food. So my mom was such a hippie. So this was like, this was big time. No, please, I want my taco. You know, not my taco.

Oh my God. You’re like, no tofu tacos.

My mom. My mom used to shop at this place called the natural foods Co Op. And now I love it as an adult. But back when I was a kid, oh, God, no, you just the smell of it. You’re like, yeah. Oh, and then now I love that smell. It’s like a Whole Foods smell. It’s a you know, ya

know, my my mom. So my mom had a dog before I was born. And I was born in Nepal. And our dog’s name was tofu. So that just gives you a little

Yeah. That’s what I grew up with tofu. carob chips, no chocolate. You know, like, if I got a honey in my oatmeal. That was like a big deal. But

now you’re getting all the honey.

No, I’m getting Oh, yeah. No, I’m indulging like, crazy. Yeah, sure.

Yeah. In terms of the questions, right. So you have different parts of your podcast. And one of them is that people write in questions and you answer their questions. And what are some of the most common questions that you get? That you’ve seen repeated over the last six years?

That it’s, and this one breaks my heart? Because I don’t know how to answer it. It but it’s common. It happens all the time. And it’s a partner writing in who’s very much in love with their, with their partner. Yeah. And but there’s no sex. Yeah, and they’re married. And you know, it, this person like really wants to have that connection that you can have through sex with someone that you really care about, and that their other partner is just doesn’t want it at all. Yeah, like lighthouses are telling me they haven’t had it for years. And, you know, like, five plus years, I’ve been talking a long time. And, and I just, I can feel that I don’t can’t remember the term, there’s a term for it, like when you’re in a crowded room, and you’re surrounded by people, but you still feel very lonely and isolated. And I can just imagine how that would feel to be that isolated from the one person in the world that you can be vulnerable with, or you’re hoping that you can be vulnerable with to have that side of, you know, your expressiveness just closed on you, you know, where you can’t reach your partner that we’re in, especially for men, because that’s, you know, women weak, we prop each other up, we’re very affectionate, you know, we can get a lot of that emotional connectivity through other women, but men, you know, they really kind of rely on if you’re, you know, a heterosexual man, you know, he’s really relying on that from his partner. And a lot of the, you know, people that are writing in are just having issues with mismatched libidos, and their partner, just absolute doesn’t want it and they can’t, they won’t even talk to him about and I’m like, this is, you know, it’s like, it’s to me, I, I feel like their partner doesn’t realize the deficit that that leaves for their


Yeah. You know, I

don’t just, it’s not just about sex, right? Yeah. No, and that’s absolutely, like, you’re, you’re touching on that. And I can actually remember an episode where you answered this specific question. And one of the things that I think is really has integrity that you repeat is, you know, if you’re, you know, if you’re married, like, have the conversation about opening your relationship, don’t just cheat. Right? Yes. And kind of emphasis that you have about, you know, not going outside the marriage, unless that’s consensual conversation. And I guess this is this specific issue is one of the primary things that it enters my office a lot with couples, right. And there are different ways to navigate it. And it’s a tricky one when, you know, it’s like, sometimes it’s a Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy. And sometimes it’s, there are certain rules that are set up, and there’s an open thing. But when there’s a lack of willingness, if one person, the person who’s creating sex is avoidant, and unable to initiate the conversation, it gets really hard. And that’s where it’s like, it just drags on and on and on. And terms of years. And, you know, often there’s kids involved, right, yeah. Um, so people stay in things that don’t work. And maybe they really work well in managing their lives, and they have hobbies, and they have children, and they do that well. But then this is a place that is absent. And I think that often the partner is that’s cutting themselves off from that they just go numb. They often, you know, have the it’s like, people who will leave that relationship aren’t the people who tend to run numb in their nervous systems. That person will be like, Yeah, this isn’t working for me. I’m gonna go Oh, but the people who are like, I can numb out my emotions and my sensations and I can just kind of quote unquote suck it up, you know? And just stick to it and be the dutiful person or, you know, of course, there are people who, who that’s just sex is just not important. And that’s that’s a whole other issue. They’re not coming in to talk to you or talk to me for that reason, right? Yeah. If you are willing to be in the hard conversation long enough, you’d be surprised at what can actually unfold and come out the other side in terms of agreements around opening a relationship? I mean, sometimes it’s about seeing a professional, yes, then there’s no threat of falling in love. Right? Yeah. Sometimes it’s about only doing it with people out of the state, when you’re on a business trip, you know, like, there can be parameters of jury agreed upon parameters. But you have to also trust that both parties are going to be honest, and you have to have really good communication skills. And you know, there’s a

lot Yeah, yeah, definitely, what I say on my show is, you know, it’s a problem that just has no lack of a number of solutions. It’s really just up to the two people involved to just come up with a plan and decide what works best for them. Yeah. And that’s very simplified, right? I know, it’s very difficult to get to that. But literally, you can set that up seven ways to Sunday, there’s, there really is no limitation on what you guys can come up with, together on how to solve this, right. And I just think that the communication, even in and of itself, builds that bond, you know, where you feel good. Because when you’re airing this stuff out, you’re able to finally talk about it. And even though you’re not talking about it, you know, it’s still there. And

in this part, that’s, that’s heartbreaking, right? Because it’s, again, it’s not just about sex, it’s about the intimacy, the intimacy, and the emotional connection, many, and because of their conditioning, they don’t express emotions and other places in their lives. And that sexual opening is one of their emotional release spaces. Huge release, right? And they may not even be conscious of that. But then their frustration without, you know, not having it. That’s what that’s about. Right? Yeah, there’s a certain kind of just like, Oh, I get to surrender and not put on this, this, you know, practice face of masculinity in the world. And I also want to say I did women until I was in my late 20s, mostly, so lesbian bed death is a very real thing. Just the knowledge that has Yeah, we’re talking hetero right.

Now, I know, and I’m really trying to work more on my language you know, about because I, I guess, when I let him see, when I talk, I’m just assuming everybody’s like, yeah, you’re translating this for your scenario, right? You know what I mean? Yeah, but I need to start working better on I’ve been thinking of that this a lot. You know, like, where I really need to be more inclusive with my language. You know, I do intend it for everybody. But I’m using the same old generic terms, you know, that I grew up with. So,

yeah, I support that. And I also think we all have different audiences. Right. Yeah. You know, and that’s, and that can be okay. Yeah. So I just want to acknowledge it’s not just like, you know, hetero man out there who are craving sex and not getting it. It’s like, there are also asexual, gay men. And there are also women who have high sex drives who have partners. I mean, the reality is that, you know, sexual trauma, it’s hard to have this conversation without acknowledging how much sexual trauma there is out there. And when I say sexual trauma, I don’t only include child sexual abuse and sexual assault, I include all sorts of things that impact and shape our sexual self expression squeezed out our lifeforce and being really raised religious, can be that and you know, it’s like, anything that’s bringing up shame and more sensation in the body and sex does that, right? There are just so many people out there that are dealing with trauma, and then if they partner with someone, you know, it’s like, it’s it affects the whole system, right?

I know, you know what I wish I really wish people before they partnered up, you know, that it was just more commonly accepted that you would go to counseling before you coupled up. Because then you have somebody that helps you and leads you into opening the door to have this conversation. You know, a lot of times I’ll I’ll have, you know, when I have a guest or somebody write in, you know, if I’m, we’re messaging back and forth. And you know, I’ll say, well, so did this like, just happen, or was this did you notice this from the start, or how did you end up in this like, sexual drought? And they’re like, Well, no, you know, my partner was always kind of shy, but I thought But that would change. You know, I’m like, oh,

yeah, wish gay. Yeah, yeah.

No, you gotta have you know, you can’t. You gotta put a backbone where your wishbone is because there’s a there’s a Leila ism. You know, because I mean, when I hear that I just have like, that’s just kind of like classic textbook stuff, right? You know, you’re like, Oh, okay. Yeah, I thought he would, they would somehow change. But, you know, we need to be better. I think it when we’re prospecting is believing what we see, you know, and

people will show you, I see that I’m like, you know, I know on a first date, you get the information, you have to just be willing to actually believe what people are saying. And it’s tricky. And there’s a certain sensation, I get my body when I feel like when I actually it’s like someone’s like on the sociopath or narcissist spectrum. There’s this, it’s too good to be true. And there’s like, this puffed up sensation I feel in my own body when I’m with them, you know? Yeah. Like, there’s certain things sometimes it can be hard, right? Someone can be really seductive and say all the right things, and maybe you don’t get it right away. But often, people will just tell you, and you might brush it aside, and you’re, you know, you think, Oh, but I can I can change that.

They’ll do it for me. No, yeah.

No, no, I’ll tell you one of the things that’s really been great for me, and not that I wasn’t this way before, but man, am I even like, more sharp about it. It’s just the qualifying process. You know, it’s like, I can do it really fast. And I come to really trust my gut. And I don’t go back on it. And it’s weird, because, you know, I’ve had a couple guys that are like, really, like, they can’t believe it, you know, that? I’ve said no, and that actually mean no, you know, the minute they cross a line, it’s like, Nope, that’s it. I’ve seen all I need to see there’s no coming back from that. And I just hope that you do better moving forward in life. Know, like, what, you know, and, and you don’t even have time, if it’s just like, I really thought we had something special. And he was just putting it off there. I said, No, I’m sorry. You know, that was one sided that was on your side. You treated me like shit. And you got cut?

Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t that a min amazing, bizarre experience, too? And I told him the truth. No, it absolutely was not special for me. Yeah. Yeah,

that’s why I’m saying goodbye. You know, and I just, I say it just just like that, you know, it’s very polite, but direct and factual. And, you know, I think people don’t realize how well other people will do when you’re honest with them. This is the other thing when you know, people write into me, I’m like, can’t you just be honest with him? Oh, no, I can’t do that. What? You can you just won’t, you know, right?

When you say no, and I, you know, do better next time. And you have a sense of like, what works for you, and what doesn’t, I picture you in business. And I’m curious, if you were a manager, and if you were able to, you know, manage and direct and give feedback and fire people if necessary, and do all that and you took that skill set, and you’re able to apply it here. Or if after six years of practice, you’ve developed the boundaries. A lot of it came from the business world. Yeah, a lot of it came from the business world. And it’s been, that has been very helpful. So yeah, that’s the tricky thing, right? So you take someone who has a history of trauma, or doesn’t have that training, and is more of the person that’s like, I’m going to do what someone else tells me to do. And they haven’t built that same muscle in the way. And then in trauma, like there’s often a freeze response, or a collapse, and, and then there’s a numb, there could be numbness in the body, or a dissociation where it’s like, I don’t know what I’m feeling. I don’t know what I want. I’m so afraid of being rejected or being cut off from this person’s love. If I said, like, no equals no more connection. Right? So it’s, it’s part of my training is an embodied leadership and using those kinds of Aikido based practices, feel physical practices to rewire the brain and build new relationships skills through the body. Yeah. And it’s so useful in working around trauma and, and helping people develop boundaries, you know, or helping people get a raise, or be a better manager, you know what I mean? Yeah, so it’s like, it’s, it’s all the same continuum. If you once you get that ability in your body, you can apply it to all aspects of your life, but often people don’t have that embodied in them. Right?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I do see that I do see that. And, of course, it’s hard for me to, right, you’re like, I see it, you know, but I’m just like, all you got to do is just Just say what you mean, you know, but what I’m asking them to do is you know, it’s like, okay, run a mile in four minutes flat like it’s, it’s feels impossible. All, you know, and they have a trained for it and they’re not they don’t have that muscle memory and it’s just not natural. And

yeah, but yeah, I mean, here’s the thing that I think is important is, you know, like you had that skill set and it set you up really well for doing what you’re doing, that someone else wouldn’t necessarily be able to do what you’re doing in the same way, you know, you’re like, Okay, I’m going out into this world, and I’m going to be interacting with all these bodies and all of their needs and my needs. And I’m clear about what my needs are. Some people might work with me for a really long time before they can even, you know, say what they need without almost physically having a seizure. Like I’m not exaggerating. Yeah. So it’s a beautiful thing that you’re modeling. And it’s aspirational for many people. Yeah,

yeah, I get that. You know, it’s kind of interesting that you say that one of the things that I didn’t mention about one of the, you know, benefits I found, or what I’ve really appreciated about staying anonymous, is that people can listen, from their perspective, just based on the content, it’s not about age, race, you know, what I look like, whether or not I’m relatable to them, you know, and just just some of this resonate with you, it doesn’t have to be all of it, you know, some of it inspire you, hopefully, to want to maybe take some little baby steps, you know, again, it doesn’t have to be like a full blown, I’m gonna do this for a year and podcast about it, you know, but just, just I hope it gets people thinking, you know, in the in in that direction. And even if it’s just they’re asking questions about Hmm, wow, I guess I haven’t had sex in a while, or, well, I haven’t had sex with my partner, or what’s going on, you know, like, maybe, maybe I should?

Well, and you know, when it’s like, oh, we’re maybe this is this possible. And this isn’t something I mean, I’ve had experiences with partners that they’ve never done things that previously because they felt safe. That yeah, into with me. And that is an honor. That’s a beautiful, beautiful thing. And I want that for other people. It’s not it’s like, Yes, isn’t about finding your prostate or something great. But it’s more about safety. Right? It’s more about opening, it’s more about stretching, it’s like when you stretch your capacity. And this is a question for you, right? This has been a sexual exploration, but your sexuality and your creativity are very connected. What have you seen the side benefits are as a result of this, what other things have opened or shifted in your life as a result of exploring sexually,

I’m happier, a lot happier. I’m not that person that has to just, you know, get in that mode that type a mode where I’m like, Okay, I want it. It’s mine. I’m on it. I won’t stop until I get what I’m after. And I felt that actually coming up for me the other day. And I was like, oh, whoa, wow, I haven’t felt this and so long. And I was just like, that, that Oh, Leila. She’s still in there. You know, and but I don’t lead with that anymore. And it’s nice, because I have found that there is, you know, I used to think, you know, I had to project the strength. And you knew, because I was assertive. And now I do not feel that I have to do that in any way, shape, or form because I am strong, whether I’m asserting it or not. And that’s a really good feeling, you know, and I just realized, like, Whoa, there’s a lot of strength in being submissive, if you want to call it that, or just stepping back, you know, and not having to be in control all the time. And I found my way to that mostly through BDSM. And exploring that, and it was just like, Well, I mean, that impacted me so so much, but yeah, just I mean, realizing, whoa, you know, like, there’s so much strength in my just just the femininity and that connection and letting someone else lead and trusting someone else to take care of you. And it feels amazing, feels amazing. And I’d never, I never had to feel that I never got to feel that before. And for me, you know, when you’re on all the time, it’s exhausting. Yeah. I didn’t realize how exhausted I was before I started all this. Yeah,

well, and you can say submissive, and it may be that and it’s also receptive, and it’s also leading and topping from the bottom. Yeah, in allowing and it’s like, oh, the people actually do want to I mean, if we’re talking in a sexual scenario at work, maybe not as much but opening people move towards openings, right, emotional, spiritual, physical openings, right. They are invitation And when you can do that with your presence, which it sounds like you’ve learned through the process of like, submission, that it there’s a softening experience, and there’s a learning how to relax and surrender more. Yeah, life, like trusting life and trusting the people around you do want to be a part of your team rather than, like, you know, sticking to you. Yeah, and just that

I can take that armor off, I feel like a lot of women, it’s just my opinion, you know, I feel like we have, we have all these wonderful, you know, gifts and talents and things now that we get to do that, you know, 5060 years ago, you know, weren’t really options. So we get to work like men, you know, but we’re not men, you know, and so sometimes, you have to respect, you know, like, there’s of all the power that your just your femininity has, and how complements, you know, the duality that you can have, you know, with a partner, and there has to be an exchange there. And, and, you know, that’s why they call the BDSM power exchange, you know, it is it’s not, it’s not, he’s dominating, you know, there’s, it’s a power exchange. And it was just, it was so interesting how through that, again, I just really, like kind of learned to settle in, like, I’m just, I’m strong, no matter what, it doesn’t have to be because I’m, you know, that with my cat, my shit kick and boots on, and I’m telling people what to do and taking names and making it happen. And I could, I could be powerful by just supporting my partner. Yeah. You know, and, and that feels really good. That is, yeah, it does feel really good to trust and let somebody else lead has been, because before I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t even hear like, a guy might say, oh, you know, you might want to watch out or not do this, because whatever. They’d be like, No, I know what I mean, I take care of myself all the time. I don’t need that. And now it’s like, oh, really affect, you know, what, I hadn’t considered that. Then. I’m more just appreciating the thought that somebody took the time to say, hey, you know what, I think this that might not be the best decision for you or avoid that it’s not safe over there, that’s part of town or whatever it is, you know, and I’m just more open.

It sounds like it sounds like there’s a receptivity around. I can take that in as you care for me and your concern for me, and, and it feels good to be cared about rather than you’re patronizing me. And you I can take care of myself and right. You know, there’s a an what you’re speaking to is that you’re more embodied in your strength. And it doesn’t have to be a defensive strength. Right? Like, fuck you. You think I’m weak? Because I’m a woman? I know. I didn’t know until I was 22. I think I wore I were Yeah, I was like, 22. I wore combat boots, steel toed combat boots from, you know, the Army Navy store. Yeah. Well through high school, 14 to 22. Baby. Yeah, yeah. So I literally worship kickers. So I had a very, very defensive boundary and was very rigid until I developed more embodied boundaries. And I consider them compassionate boundaries or flexible boundaries, right? Yeah. Like, yes. Trusting that I’ll be trusting that I’m safer in the world than I ever had perceived myself to be. Before that, yes.

But it’s, you know, I also found to this new sense of just strength for myself where it was like,

I actually don’t, you know, I’m

going to be okay, no matter what, like, it really doesn’t matter what they do. I don’t have to worry, like, you can keep somebody in line or this, you know, that I have to be focusing on managing them now. They’ll manage themselves, I’m okay. You know, I’ll be alright, no matter what, and, and I don’t have to worry or preemptively worry about. Yeah. What’s this guy doing? What’s his intention? Oh, he’s getting too serious. Does he want to, I know what this is going now. He’s gonna want a relationship. And I don’t want that, you know, just like that kind of stuff that used to play around in there. And now, I, you know, after doing this, right, you know, you start to realize, like, I used to think like, boy, I can control my feelings. So it doesn’t really matter. Yeah, that’s, that’s not true. And, and not only is it not true, it’s okay. You know, if we enter into this, like, hey, it’s casual. These are the parameters. If something starts to shift or change, we just have conversation about it. We’ve been, you know, and it’s fine. It’s fine. There’s no, it’s normal. And, you know, it’s like, everybody has the right to feel what they’re feeling and I’m not afraid of it. And they’re, you know, hopefully they’re not afraid of it either. And, you know, we’ll go along with our set set intention, but, you know, when if it shifts. Yeah, we cross that bridge when we get there.

Mm hmm. Given some more being in the present moment less, you know, when when we go into controlling behavior, that’s also part of a fight response. You reckon we’re being defensive, judgemental, rationalizing or controlling? It’s a fight response. And so I hear less of a fight response, more presence and more ability to trust. I have the skill, and I’m selecting people who have the skill to have hard conversations. Yeah,

yeah, definitely. My qualifying process has gotten it’s gotten fast. And, and like I said, I just really trust my, my skills. And then you know, and I can weed out the bad ones pretty quick. And, you know,

that brings me to a question, one of the one of the things that you’re talking about on an episode was wanting to have a threesome that’s on your bucket list. And going through the process and realizing, Oh, this is not as easy and sexy as I thought it would be. And trying to like find, you know, like the process of communicating and that third person to be with you and your partner. Yeah. And one of the things that you said that I was like, oh, we need to talk about this is yes. Is married men, like people who say that they’re single, who are actually married, and you’re like, I’ve seen enough. I’ve been on dating apps enough that I really have I know how to, you know, smell those guys out. And I was curious, because that is an issue that everyone online deals with. How what are your telltale signs? And this is of course, I think you’re you’re talking about hetero straight men that those are the people you’re able to suss out or is it? Yes, in among women as well, that

I’m just dating. Yeah. Just it’s just been with men. So yeah, it’s a problem. It is a problem. I Oh, boy. I could do I mean,

we could do. We could have a whole episode just on this. I’m sure. Yeah. So

I obviously so I’m just I mean, I read their profile very carefully. And a lot of you know, it’s like that usually say single single, which is great. Then I’m like, okay, but I always ask. So the first thing I do is, well, I’ll pretend that I missed it. And I’ll say, Oh, so you know, what’s your I didn’t catch it. But so what’s your status? Your are you, you know, single, married, divorced attached? What’s what’s going on? And then a lot of times, it slips out? Or, Oh, well, we’re separate. Yeah, we’re separated now. You know, like, it’s like, well, I know their profiles. Its angle. And they also said it. Like it’s a single, but then they also say in their little blurb about themselves. Single fun, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I find that men that travel a lot, unfortunately, it’s rampant. So I always say for me, I say nobody that’s not local. If I can’t eventually go to your house. Yeah. That’s like, if you know, if you wouldn’t ever have me over, there’s a red flag the pictures that they sent. This is a huge. I don’t like I hate to. I mean, I’m not in danger of even you know, when I say this, because people will still like, make this specific. They don’t realize. I can tell, like, if I look at the pictures very carefully, do I see a pink towel? In your picture? Oh, do I see two toothbrushes? Do you know? Because there’s a lot of times people aren’t taking their bathroom? Selfie, guys. It’s just like, classic. But this how messy is the house? Is it neat and organized? Does it look like a woman lives there, look at the background. It’s there’s all these very subtle things. Now you can also do this too, I’ve never done this, you can actually I guess take like a picture and throw it into something like on the net, they’ll search it out on the net. So if it lands on their Facebook profile, you know, then you can see. Right, right. And, and again, you know, I find that just really paying attention to those details, look, checking it out. And then when you meet them, of course, I’m looking for you know, is there a tan line? Because usually they’re going to take their ring off, but a lot of times, I mean, guys will send you a second picture. What happened with me the other day was this guy sends a headshot and he’s very handsome. You know, it’s like, oh, yeah, you know, but I could I, the minute I saw him, and the closet and how organized like do you see women’s clothes? You know, like, I just looked, I can see, I can tell by your sheets, you know, like, crap. I swear, I swear and it’s not wrong. Like if you just go, that’s a woman’s touch, you can see you know, that kind of stuff. Then I then I’ll go you know, and I’ll just I can pick up on it. So then that I said, he sends me another picture and he’s got a wedding ring. And so I said obviously wasn’t really paid attention. Right? And so that’s like they just they get comfortable and then they they don’t pay attention. So then I of course I just boom nailed it right there and that was it. But other times it takes longer like to figure out I’ve had that happen. And it doesn’t take long though. So I’ve got it down now where I, that’s where I’d like to meet somebody, you know, meet them face to face, have a conversation. Again, look for any kind of tan lines, but then you can ask, you know, then you can ask a few more pointed detailed questions. Oh, so you know, you’re gonna ask them about themselves. So have you ever been married? Oh, when we married? How long? Were you married? Oh, wait, so So when did you get divorced? You could see like letters, because they’re not prepared to answer, like, come up with a lie relief. So a lot of times, it’s just that kind of stuff. You’re like, oh, okay, you know, like, you can start, you could just start stressing it out real fast. Yeah. But especially, you know, older guys, like, Oh, you’d never been married? Come on. Really. That’s your like, what what percent, you know, it’s might be possible. But again, like, oh, you know, all these little things, you’ll catch little things, you know, and then it starts adding up. And then you can pretty much suss it out. But I’ve gotten really, I’ve gotten pretty good at it. So I haven’t had any more in the beginning. I was just ignorance on fire. Like, oh, my God, oh, my God, this guy, so much fun. He’s gonna and then it’s like, then, you know, you’re after you’ve slept with him a couple times. It’s like, Well, I gotta tell you something, or they don’t even tell you and you just actually stumble on it. And you’re like, Oh, my God, you know, that is? Yeah, that feels to me. That’s a violation.

Oh, you know it. And you even named it as that on an episode. And I, I appreciated that because I once went on a date with someone who it came out in the middle of the date. And we had really enjoyed each other. Like, we talked pre we’d been till we texted and talked, and we were all in the state. And he had, like, picked me up. And he picked the place. And he ordered for us, I don’t even drink and he ordered us drinks. And I was kind of like, I was just being in a practice of a surrendering and allowing, like, Okay, let’s see, like, Oh, he’s, he’s dominant in this way. It can be sexy at times. And other times the alpha in me will, like, be like, put them in their place. But so it’s going along for it. And then at some point, because I’m trusting and he was single on his profile. I saw a ring on his finger. And I said, you know, like some people just for fashion wear rings, right? And I was like, What are you married? And he said, Yes. And I would felt like I’d been punched. I was so shocked. And I, when I later told him I didn’t want to go out again. It was, you know, he was he was clearly a narcissist. And his response was very attacking. And he like, kind of turned it around and like attacked me. But for for him to not get that that was something that the fact that it wasn’t consensual, like, I didn’t consent to go out with someone who is not who was married, and that he didn’t share that. And exploit you know, was just, it’s so fucked up. Right? Yeah. Yeah. They don’t see it that way. Then he’s like, Oh, well, I would have told you that, you know, it was gonna come out. And we were I wanted to wait and see how we connected. And I’m like, but I just wasted this much time.

I don’t want to connect with anybody very, that’s the point. And yeah, this is really what I tell very guys, I say you could say like, Well, why not? Like what you know, they could they can. I don’t know why it’s like, literally isn’t common sense to them. But I have a way of putting it to them. I just let them know that you know what? I’m not going to live my life by the limitations of your marriage. Perfect. Because you are the one that’s limited. You’re the one with the baggage, you’re the weak link. Yeah. I am not. I am free to go and do whatever I want when I want you or not. And I’m not going to run my life around your bad choices and your shitty marriage. Because clearly, yeah, it’s not great. If you’re going outside of it.

Yeah. You know, if it’s, if it’s consensual, you would be upfront about this was

open. Yeah, I would have been upfront about it. Yeah, I would have said, we have an agreement. You know, this is you would have been straight up with your circumstance. And there’s guys that are you know, and I appreciate that. And I will say, Hey, I’m gonna appreciate you being you know, I’m glad Yeah, they’ll reach out anyway. And I’m like, Well, I know you’re not interested. But it just thought I’d try you know, like, You’re right. I’m not interested. But I do appreciate the fact that it says on your profile, married, good for you, you will attract the person that’s okay with that. And that you guys will align, you know, you’ll get what you’re looking for.

And there. Are there plenty of people who are interested in that, right. I

don’t care. Yeah, that fits whatever that works for them. That’s yeah, and that’s, I’m not I’m not making any judgment about that. I say, have at it. You know, I just don’t want any you know, for me. It’s not it’s not desirable at all.

Yeah, well, you know, and that’s one of the things is it’s that you just said was there’s there’s limitations inside of that person. His life structure, and you’re in a place of liberating, you know, like flipping and having any choice, like making all the choices that you want to make. Yeah. And so I’m curious, how would you define sexual freedom? Oh, how

would I define sexual freedom? Like, what

is that to you?

There’s a lot under that umbrella. Sure, there’s a lot under that umbrella. I that see, for me sexual freedom


I don’t think something that I’ve truly probably 100% achieved. sexual freedom for me will be when I don’t have to worry about what I posted on social media, because I don’t post pornography, I understand the difference. So I don’t I’m not getting I’m not going to like I should be able to post pornography on Facebook and not be hassled. No, that’s not what I’m saying. But I should be able to use proper terms. If I say penis or vagina, I shouldn’t have something taken down. And I even don’t really in my posts, I don’t know, you know, but I’m just saying like, just because something is, you know, intimate, it’s an intimate, suggestive, maybe photo, I don’t think that it should be censored. And I’ll be empowered when I don’t have to worry about my, you know, social media getting taken down, which eventually it does, and you rebuild it. And that’s a drag. But it’s like something I’ve come to accept. When I don’t have my podcast, it gets put in because I talk about things that are of a sexual nature. It gets put in this lumped in with pornography, all that, you know, sex workers, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sex work, or pornography, per se. I know, there’s, there’s bad things about every, every industry, but you know, I’m just classified over there. And when I also feel comfortable that I will have repercussions, potential repercussions, if people found out that I talk about sex, that you know, that I could no longer be a part of an organization that I’ve been a part of my whole life, you know, or I’m not worried about my friends. You know, I think, you know, most of my friends, not all of them know, but most of them would be, you know, I don’t think they would freak out again, I’m

just talking about sex. But

yeah, so I just, I think that, because I don’t have a problem with, you know, being expressive sexually, and engaging in certain things myself, that’s not where my limitations are anymore. It’s just about how the world around me reacts to that. So I either have to just get much better at not giving a shit. I feel like might not give a shit Oh, meters pretty high. But every once in a while, it still bothers me

that, you know, I have to be

judged because I’m having sex. Okay, like, Am I doing something weird? You know? It’s like, okay, we can do it, but don’t talk about it. That doesn’t make sense to me. So I think when we can get our arms around normalizing it and not having it be so taboo and weird, then that for me is,

you know, is when that will come into play. You know, there’s true,

pervasive sexual freedom is, you know, Environment and Society and culture,

where it’s okay to talk, you know, there’s nothing weird about going to see a therapist about this as a subject. In any way, shape, or form is not weird. Yeah. Or taboo? You know, so, yeah, I’m over it. I just feel like, Come on people. Really, is the sort of final frontier here. Come on. Yeah.

And along those lines, I think that they’re correct me if I’m wrong. So you do a also a private podcast. So it’s additional, maybe additional stories or additional material that people can subscribe to? And that maybe it’s not, it’s sent, it’d be censored if it was put in your regular podcast, or how do you? How do you decide what goes into your private podcast and give you can explain why the distinction is?

Yeah, I think so. First of all, that’s watching like, any day now. Yes. Yeah. And it’s just, it’s basically it’s just a supplement to the, you know, to the cure school diaries, but it because it’s not going to be syndicated. I can, I don’t have to worry. I mean, it’s going to be all over the board. It’s I have, it’s going to be me getting a little more revealing. A lot of times there’s stuff I don’t want to say maybe about somebody in particular, because, again, it’s syndicated all over the place. And so even though I’m using nicknames and all that stuff, maybe there’s something I really wanted to say about that person or something that we did that I never revealed and, or, or which what the other things I’m going to be including, which is really fascinating is my just my audio journals of what I was thinking at the time as I was going through this stuff, a lot of that, you know, like kept to myself, right? I wasn’t like this. That’s my private stuff. But now that, you know, I feel like, you know why it’s okay if it’s if it’s behind a paywall, and it’s not syndicated. And it’s just for the really kind of what I consider the true like, you know,


Which, you know, there might be total, I

don’t know, you know, I don’t really know what to expect, but it doesn’t matter. It’s just, it’s just that it’s going to be the stuff and then like, previous stuff that I have censored that I was like, No, I can’t I can’t publish that note, like, you know, you have those episodes were like, Oh, my God, no, why was I thinking you get self conscious in the beginning or whatever. So it’s just gonna be a lot of that fun stuff. But really the story behind the story, a lot of things I’m gonna go deeper into and elaborate on that I didn’t say, and there’s a lot, there’s actually a lot I tried to be as honest, as I could. But you know, I’m, I’m human, you know, and I’ve had I’ve, I’ve held some things back, they just feel like, Okay, it’s time to get some things out of the ball. Yeah, yeah. Well, I

have to say, I mean, and for listeners who have never listened to your podcast, you are I mean, you’re very honest, you’re very explicit. And it’s basically the kind of girl talk that I mean, you know, most women that at least I know. And, of course, I’m a therapist. And so my friends are often therapists. And so we, you know, we share a lot of detail. I mean, women, like often not all like to get into the nitty gritty details. I mean, just know that like, Guys, we, you know, hetero guys may like embellish and lie or whatever, we’re, you know, yeah, hit that, whatever. But we get into that the very graphic detail.

We love the details. Yeah, yeah.

The play by play, it’s like, yeah,

well, to that point,

I just want to find fasting. So when I’m just expressing, like, something that actually happened,


changed my words and said, you know, he penetrated me with his scepter. And it was deep, and throbbing, and very big. And I was very turned on by him in the moment, and it’s like, that is not the same as you know, this guy had me screaming, like, climbing the walls. He was so good.

You know? Yeah, that you sounded like a bad romance novel a second. Totally.

Totally. And that that’s, so I express myself on the podcast the way I express myself, which that is how I talk.

Yeah, yeah, no. Well, and that’s the thing. That’s it’s that, you know, when I originally had the cop talk idea, it was like that, that that’s the dialogue. Right. And I think that it’s very relatable for that reason. And so for people to know that if you, you know, if you find that to be like, Oh, wow, like, imagine that and turn it up to 11. Yeah, right. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, just, yeah, just a little bit more. And even just like things like, about, just about what was going on between with me and someone else, or certain situations and circumstances that, you know, I just didn’t divulge, you know, and there’s a lot of good, juicy stuff. I put a lot out there, but there’s still a lot of meat on the bone. So I’m gonna pick it off.

Yes. endless, endless euphemisms in that statement. Totally. Yeah. So we could probably chat forever. I have some, you know, so many more things I want to get into. And I’m curious, is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners, as well as sharing your handles? And how people can find you?

Yeah, so I keep it pretty straightforward and easy, because none of my handles are the same. You know, unfortunately, I didn’t like, get on there right at the very beginning, like, you know, get the exact one. So, just the easiest thing to do is to go to the cure school And if you scroll to the bottom, you can link to all my socials there. You can also there’s a pink tab on the right hand side of every page where you can leave me a voicemail, I love to get voicemails. It’s really fun i correspond with I answer everybody. So it’s just nice to know, like, get to know people, they’re getting to know me and then all of a sudden, you know, I get to know them back. So it’s a lot of fun. Also my sex bucket list tutorial. It’s free. It’s on there. If you click on courses, and the private podcast is there, just click on exclusive. So yeah, that’s an exciting jump on my mailing list. And just or that’s the hub, you know, and we got this new podcast and of course a podcast is really anywhere you anywhere you listen to podcasts, but I’ve got it on my website as well.

Fantastic. I love it. Yeah, it’s been really fun.

I know. I feel like I could talk to you forever. And we have the Oakland connection. You know, I used to live in Oakland.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’m very, very content in Oakland. If you ever pass through town, I have a glorious garden that I makes me so happy and it feels more like like Hawaii back there. Yeah, love it. have to come come check. Yes, yeah. All right. Well, thank


Thank you. One of the things I appreciate about Layla is that she is encouraging people to step out of their comfort zones. She reminds us you don’t need to learn to rock climb or go to a foreign city to adventure, you can actually start at home, in your bedroom, simply by making a list. Leila guides people through a bucket list challenge, you can consider what I’m about to share my version

of that. offline, I was

sharing with Leila, some fun and sexy ways. My boyfriend who is a wildland firefighter, stay connected during fire season. One of the playful games that we stumbled into actually came from him casually admitting something vulnerable, one of the first nights we were together, he said he has a bad memory and remembers things that never happened. While I could hear this and worry, will he remember when I tell him important things? Or will he remember things he says he will do? Instead, I asked, What are some of your favorite moments that never happened between us? To which he surprised me and shared a beautiful, detailed story about finding a COVID beach protected by rocks. He said, I spread out a picnic for us, and it was sunset. And we and then he paused. And I instinctually finished his sentence. We watched the starlings fly in murmuration. And he interrupted me saying Wait, what? What no way that would, how did you know that? It’s exactly what I was going to say. I couldn’t remember the name of those birds. This created positive memory and imprint of delight at co creating something that could potentially happen or maybe it just exists as a safe, romantic fantasy. The first of many, this became a sweet way we’d wake each other in the morning the text of a memory

when we were apart. One of my favorites that I sent him was

remember that weekend we can do down the Russian River with the dogs and their safety vests. We rented that Airbnb that had a big BlackBerry wall and the berries were so ripe that they dissolved between your thick fingers. I was wearing a short sundress and you started by writing messages in the juice on my bear lens and had me guess what you wrote. You continued until I was stripped bare and my whole naked body was covered in purple in you cleaned me off with your mouth. For others they freeze up under pressure to be creative or share. Here’s a practice to free up your mind helping to create a wish list of sensation based heart expanding experiences that you may choose to actually play out. So first, take out a piece of paper and a pen.

Make a few columns. Write these words out. taste, sight, smell, sound, sensation, emotion, location, climate activity, people you are with.

under each category, write a bunch of disconnected words that come to mind. Though you may find that whole sentences float automatically and just let yourself go there. Another option is to cut up the words that you’ve written out and create piles of each category and then choose one from each pile and let the

writing start from there.

Use your senses to recall details the smell the air, or your partner the color of the sky or her skin tan by the sun. How your body felt electric being next to him. Landscapes you’ve never seen and want to go to cities you’ve been to and want to return to activities that are playful and joyful things that you’ve never tried and feel excited to. This has been laid up in podcast with your host Charna caselle. Please join us next week. If this show feels beneficial. we’d love if you please rate and review it and share it with your friends so others can find us. If you have additional questions around sex and trauma, you can submit them at Charna If you found this exercise helpful or want to see it written out, it’ll be reposted in my blog along with a number of other exercises from previous episodes. Please follow me at lit up and podcast on Instagram and Facebook and read more about my work at passionate Until next time, lots of love. My hope is this podcast connects people to new resources that help them feel empowered to heal



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