Living an UnRepressed Life, A Journey of a Preachers Daughter with Tara Nicholle-Kirke

In today’s episode of LaidOPEN Podcast, Charna welcomes a powerhouse guest, Tara Nicholle-Kirke, a globally recognized unrepression expert and former CMO of MyFitnessPal. Together they explore mindful parenting, befriending criticism, and spiritual dating. Plus, they tackle some very big topics including defining trauma, how productivity is rooted in slavery, as well as, Marie Kondoing your whole life. Charna explains her concept “Asshole Angels” and Tara prescribes an exercise for dating with freedom.

Show Notes

Welcome, everybody. Today on the lady open podcast, my guest is Tara Nicole Kirk. She’s a globally recognized and repression expert, master coach and spiritual strategist known as the inner critic coach, a recovering attorney and the former CMO of My Fitness Pal, Tara wrote the authoritative book on transformational business. It’s called the transformational consumer fuel a lifelong love affair with your customers by helping them get healthier, wealthier and wiser. As the founder and CEO of soul tours School of spiritual strategy, Tara has taught over 50,000 Smart successful people how to stop hiding their light and holding themselves back so their lives and businesses can finally take off

life is about to


trauma extension


all are deciders calm?

Welcome. I’m so happy to have you here today. So happy to be here. I mean, I feel like the thing I should have mentioned in this bio was that turnout is also my friends. And so we’ve been looking forward to having this conversation for really, yes, you know, Tara, I was thinking about maybe sharing the story of how we met. So Tara dated somebody for a while that I dated very briefly. And I stayed friends with and I was invited to go to the movies with a few people. And I got to meet Tara. And after we saw the movie, and we’d hung out some I grabbed our mutual friend and I was like, you have to keep dating her I really liked

what so? Like, we I am not actually still super friends with this person, but I am friends with a bunch of his friends. So I had a repeat of that I had a number of like experiences where we’d go out and, you know, your guys’s friends would be like, Hey, if you guys break up, I’m keeping you you know, it was it’s kind of hilarious. Yeah, no, I was like, I kind of frantically squeezed his arm and he’s like, we’ve only been dating for two weeks.

Give me a minute. I was looking very hard. I want to go to the wedding. Yeah, no, no, I mean, I will definitely throw a party you can come to though. I love it. I love it. Yeah, outdoor concerts at my house.

So I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for a while. And I love the topic and the word on repression. Me too. How did you specifically come to that? term, that word, it feels a little full circle, because I definitely had this very, like twisty windy career path that started in a bunch of fields. We know I have a master’s degree in psychology. But then I went to law school and I was like a lawyer and I worked in tech and I was a marketer, and it was all these things. And now I like it. 45 years old and you know, 20 ish years into my career, I find myself kind of full circle, because that was my primal heart wound. Mm hmm. That’s I think so often, especially, you know, I’ve worked so with so many entrepreneurs who are like soulful entrepreneurs who are like in a business because it’s answering their spiritual minds. I can almost like, meet a person, discover what their business or career is about and trace the straight line back to what their primal wounding was.

Oh, like I work on and repression, because I grew up in a very repressive culture and religious against a very repressive religious backdrop and in a very repressed family. So it’s part of my own. You know, my career is very much part of my own spiritual journey as being human and yeah, and how I came to that word, you know, a lot of my in a lot of my career I was doing before I started soul tour. I was doing work that felt it felt important and transformational, but it also was like a little bit shadowy in that. I was I wanted to help people I have always wanted to help people do the things they most desire to do, because I

I think when we’re doing that, we’re like, answering the callings of higher forces that are there. And the reason higher forces are calling us to do these things is so that human evolution might take place like this is how humanity gets better is all of us sort of being in our callings being in our powers, soul on deck, not holding our own stuff back. But early in my career, I would kind of always do it through, like, in a healthy way. So I’d be like, I want to work with people on like, radical self acceptance, and like, help them understand how worthy of love they are. But what they want is to lose weight. So I’m going to work on a calorie counting app.

And then, but I’m gonna be the head of marketing, right? So I can like, publish all the content and send them all these messages about their deep worthiness. Like that. And then, you know, what happens with all of us is as as we unwrap pressing our own healing. As we get older, we get much bolder, and over time, I just came to, you know, a business model where I get to serve people’s, you know, sole needs, right, you’re serving them more directly, rather than having to do this covert, yes, in that, like, I’ll slip it in, like much more directly. But even still, at the beginning of this business, I was like, so working on like, help you write a book or help you start a business or help you do these other things, and overturn them, I would talk to the students who were taking stuff, taking these programs, and they were like, you know, you really helped me do you know, he really helps me do you really helped me heal my inner critic, which helps me unwind my self sabotage patterns. And that’s what helped me like do all of the things that I wanted to do not just the book or the business or the whatever. And so like, over time, it became clear that like this, you know, I sort of think of our inner critic, or self sabotage patterns as the personified way that we internalize repression exactly those voices from whether it’s an Aster whether it’s your father whether it’s an ex partner those those or even a sibling Yes, this highly critical voices a teacher sometimes it’s ancestral sometimes it’s like in the collective unconscious, it may you know, usually there’s some voice that you’re hearing or some relational template that you’re repeating that does come from this life in like way that you may not always remember but you can get you can get it you can get to it you can drag it back but you know, often the even those voices when you think about like what generational trauma is and looks like and represents, that’s the stuff is in the collective unconscious. That’s why our none of our inner crates are that original. Right? You’re like, you’re so cliche oh my god, me, I’m bad. Come on, get creative, asking me no, like, Who are you to do that? Nobody wants to buy what you’re selling. Okay. Like, I promise it’s one of my superpowers is I’ve been able to work with the inner critic of hundreds of millions of people at my fitness pal and more intimately and a 10s of 1000s. And like hundreds one on one scale, at Sol Sol tour. So like, I have seen the inner the inner workings of a lot of inner critics. And they’re both being, they all sound exactly the same. Which is why I think there is a collective unconscious shadow that our inner critic actually you know, what’s cool is when you look at the old sacred literature, like the rabbinical literature, literature, they’re in, in like mystical Judaism, these forces the wise inner being and the inner critic, we’re actually had personifications in the old old literature, the yetzer power off and the yetzer ha Tov para la was the inner critic and pataw was the sort of the angels that encouraged the blades of grass and human to grow. So these things have been around forever. They’re ancient, not you didn’t make your inner critic up. You’re not destined to be be repressed by it. But but because a lot of because my own sort of spiritual background and having grown up in a really church centric way, I end up working with a lot of people who have repression, in this subject, area of sexuality and everything related to that my bio used to call me a sexy black church lady. And it was like that, remember that and it was like a Buddhist sects eventually, in part because we have to, it’s helpful sometimes to break those associations by like, really, like shocking, you awake to the fact that you have them in the first place that’s sexy and spiritual. Don’t say together to people. You know, I was at a silent meditation retreat at Spirit Rock, and it was when we weren’t suddenly meditating. We got to meet in either a group of painters or a group of writers, and then we would, you know, we would do our writing or a painting and

The very end of the week, we came together and we shared, each person got to read one piece of their writing or share their painting. And the piece that I wrote, or the piece that I shared was a very sexy piece. And it felt, so it felt like there was silence, like Thiksey insanity. Well, that’s the,

you know, Buddhism and sexuality, and they don’t always go together. And I had one person approached me and thanked me for being that voice, but it was it was a little awkward. Yes. I mean, that’s the I think that’s kind of the, here’s my point of view is that, like, our culture is really, it is broken in a way that is calling for new seasons of evolution, right? Like all these institutions, we’re seeing it we’re seeing them be revealed or as toxic as they are and be dismantled in a way that allows us to build something more beautiful. And I think like, very specifically, around like section that, you know, sex and spiritual communities, there has always been sex in spiritual communities, let’s just like call that what it is, first of all, so the idea that those same communities or leaders are like somewhat shaming of the mere mention, but also seem to often get caught, like in very non functional non health full non unacceptable by the rules we all agree on for, you know, by our social contract, social behavior, like it almost gets to a place where like, the repression seems to be part of the it seems to us to be part of the problem. Oh, well, 100%, I mean, look at look at the way the Catholic Church has related to sexuality and how much harm and trauma has come out. As a result, when things are pressed down, how they come out, sideways, and you know, it’s the shadow, right, it’s the shadow of anything, if the shadow doesn’t get addressed and brought into the light, then it’s, it comes out full force in very ugly ways, in very ugly ways. Which is why that’s so true about like, every subject matter in human experience, right. So it’s kind of like, part of the journey of an awakening human to just start unpacking the shadows, just what whatever it is, that’s never been okay. For you to do or say, or whatever, like, pull it out. Can you can you examine the one of the things kind of going back to talking about the inner critic, and you know, how it’s even in shown up in, in biblical ways of like, he giving it a full voice, right. So one of the ways that I work with my clients in private practice with their inner critic is, it’s like, okay, so let’s, let’s physicalize this, like, you stand up, you’d be that part, I’m going to be this part. What kind of gesture would that part make? What’s the name of that part? If you let it just keep speaking, not interrupting it, it’s the interruption that creates that stagnation internally, right, where you don’t actually listen to it fully. It’s like, being in a dialogue with between you and me, if I keep interrupting you, you’re gonna want to punch me in the face, you’re gonna scream louder. It’s we’re not going to come train ground, right? It’s literally because they’re all like, this is a thing that I think we don’t be in that comes from just being taught so often, that there are thoughts that are good and thoughts that are bad, or that, you know, we’ve got to, once we once we start awakening, people come into this, like, feel this pressure to like, slay or mute their inner critic, or silence their inner critic. And so I kind of keep talking

about this idea that like your inner, all of our inner dynamics are goal oriented. Mm hmm. If you are seeking to slay in silence and your inner critic, you’re literally just putting it in the shadow it just will backfire. 100% of its

like 100% of the time, so why not like befriend it? Why not acknowledge that it had some kind of goal which isn’t usually like some self protective thing or some like it was the part that helped you get what seemed like love as a kid effects? Yes, and approval, whatever from the big ones who you did actually need to approve of you to survive because you were a child. Right? Like why not be friend it and then in the befriending ease that I like, like to describe it in the way we talk about raising a toddler, right, drop the rope, drop the rope and that power in that tug of war within you and just like see what comes into that space. Absolutely. You know what’s so important about that is, I think of all the parts people

will come in to see me. And they want to banish a part of them or they want to destroy a part of them. And ultimately, the healing happens when you can actually face that part of yourself and be grateful or appreciative at the very least for how it’s protected you and gotten to where it gotten you to where you are now. Right? It’s like, okay, so maybe that part, it was really critical, and it kept you in line. Right. And it keeps food on a roof over your head? Well, I think like, I, and that’s like, I think it’s super important for us to recognize like what it did historically, and that it that that seemed force can warp and into a hindering force over time, I think I tend to see people on either side of this like continuum spectrum of like, they want to banish their inner critic, or they kind of want to keep it alive, because they think it’s there, they think it’s the same as their motivation. Yes, they’re like, I will basically not not ever get off the couch, I’m, I will be a lazy sloth, if I don’t keep soldiering on myself. And even in relational conflict context, like, you know, it’s what gives me my edge, it’s what keeps me working out. It’s what like, kind of who would want me if I was just like, the person I would be without this force will like, maybe you don’t even know if that person is. Right. And that’s another

reason that people resist really shining light on that, that’s the repression, the inner critic shadow is, its untethering to do it. Because if your whole if your whole if as for many of us, your whole identity, a lifetime of identity has been built under the influence of this inner critic who had you perform an informant and achieve and be and act a certain way because it’s, you know, what you thought was, okay, allowed?

Then I think the question becomes, who do you be? Who will you be

without being under that influence? And if you grew up in, you know, conservative religion, boy, you know, people think they might go to hell? Well, 100% I mean, you know, I’ve, I’ve had a lot of clients who are, you could call them ex Christian, or they’ve they’re just, they’ve come from fundamental or very conservative backgrounds, and then how do they embrace themselves as being gay, like they, they’ve literally lost, sometimes lost a whole community, in the process of accepting themselves. But those critics have said that internal critic doesn’t necessarily go away. It’s like still keeping them in line. But there’s this yeah, there’s a real fear of loss of identity, loss of connection, all of that if you let this. If you let go of the inner critic, it’s like, well, oh, my God, what kind of bad person or Yes, will I be? Right? What lines will like cross? Yeah, like, what’s the Hemis conversation the other day with someone. So I was like, You seem a little afraid that like, you’re gonna let a chaos monster in you out. It’s just gonna, like wreak havoc all over your life. Yeah.

And like, the reality is that a lot of times there is disruption, when you start to fully just decide to be who you really for real are without

crimping it or pruning it, or it’s, you know, hiding or shaping the edges on for other people. And it often impacts like sexuality and relationships and everything else identity, you know, gender identity for many people, it’s also just, it also creates such a relief.

And such, you know, it does turn life into an experiment in some way, because your North Star is no longer what they said you got to do.

Right, right. Well, you have to then, you know, part of the the scary part of this, especially if you’re stepping outside of a church, where they’re very black and white rules, and black and white thinking is that you’re responsible for yourself, and for deciding, making choices.

What do you believe we’re going to be about? Hmm, no, and there’s so much it’s freeing and untethering it’s delicious and disorienting. But it’s also I think, it’s kind of

I don’t love the word addictive. It’s just very delicious. liberation is very delicious. There’s so there’s all this really

sensual fluid language that you’re using around liberation, or I would say freedom. Right? Like when I think of repressed, I also think of bound I picture someone in a corset where there’s no need

Room for their own breath, like taking a deeper breath. Right life being squeezed out of their system.

Yes. And replaced by rigidity. Yeah, stripped by restraint. Right. Right. And, you know, let me say this, in my experience of

divine source spirit, all that is, you know, some people call it God, whatever. Like, that’s all about wild, organic, creating grown big fluid, you know, and I think we’re all kind of droplets of that, more like a divine in the ocean, where drafts of that like absolutely are. So even in in terms of like, like work. So I end up working with people who are very focused on like being more productive, which second was actually like, is I’m going to be really real, okay, you guys can’t see me because there’s a podcast, but I’m black. Productivity culture comes from slavery.

It is how human capital, human assets were tracked and optimized. So literally, you can look these things up, there was a book that started to be published in the mid 1800s. And it was like a log book where they took it was like an overseers log book. And they literally had like guidance in there on how to keep kind of tally the output of each each enslaved human being, and how to make them output more no matter what they were already outputting. Okay. And by virtue of using these long books, which were best selling, by virtue of using them, the input the output of like a cotton, picking enslaved human, in, like, I can’t remember the exact time was like a 10 or 15 year period of time, was like, increased by like, 40%.

All right, and when you look at the pages of these books, it looks like every productivity planner you’ve ever had you’ve ever bought on it’s the same thing. Humans are not meant to be tracked in love. And measure in their productivity is not their war.

But we kind of all fall into that. And it’s a real like life and feeling chilling. So then on so then people are like, okay, but then why.

And so, like, I tend to offer the concept of fruitfulness instead, which is like a very net is a very organic, I’m not saying you shouldn’t ever do stuff. I’m saying but when you think about what all goes into any level of like, divine, you know, spiritual,

spiritually, like driven, you know, you plant a seed, or an animal put seed and then like, it’s not all you

like, the sun comes and shines, and the rain falls and you know, maybe bird bees and birds pollinate stuff like it’s not into soil has a role to play, like everything kind of has a role to play. And so being fruitfully mentally is really different, really unreached pressive concept and construct for us to kind of put our

work lives and our have ample rest of our lives. Right? Well, it inside of that. Also, the first thought that came is like patience, right? You plant something, you know, I have this garden, and you know, it’s like you’re waiting, you’re seeing you’re like, Okay, so I planted some seeds. I don’t know, if a squirrel came and ate it, I don’t know what’s actually going to grow. Depending on how much sun it gets, depending on how much water it gets. There’s a certain amount of letting go of agenda control and certainty, and having more patience, and fluidity in relation to what you’re hoping to create. And like letting things take the time to take. Yeah, very revolutionary. Oh, well, and I will, I’m going to out myself here. So there is a kind of somatic work called hakomi. And they have character types. And these are just kind of you know, like your your strategies for survival in the in the world and one of them is the producer type. And I will I have my hand on an imaginary Bible and my hand is up in the air and I I am definitely my strategy for responding to trauma was was action, right? Like something happens and I’m mobilized into action.

In and it happens to get more rewarded than if you choose drugs as your path, right? Yes. But there is an unlearning and a softening because that producing hardens the tissue in your body and stresses your body over time. So there’s a Reese softening. Yeah, that needs to happen. Yeah. Yes. Yes. The unlearning as creating space for like us, you know, in deciding, getting to choose Yes, but hopefully, you know, also somatically I was doing this interview yesterday and someone was like, Well, how your career has been this and this and this and this, how many decide what the next thing it’s gonna do? And I’m like, in 2021 I design is does it feel shackles on our shackles off to me? That’s vision. It’s not about it’s not in and that’s true. That’s also true. That’s very true and much more true in my like, Sex Life and Relationship life than than the other like, does it feel shackles on or shackles off to me in a do I feel expansive in this? Do I feel contracted in this? I don’t have to I don’t any longer feel in need. What it does do is make some of your like conversations with with your friends that used to be dramatic about relationships are really boring. It’s like,

you know, sovereignty is not actually that dramatic. Like, I went on a date a couple of weeks ago, and I’ve had like a bunch of friends but like, what happened? I counted. I’m like, yeah, he’s


Somewhere like I’m not I’m not like that that interested. But you miscue, it was fine. Like, it’s just not as defining all consuming and the processing and used to do about like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that person, whether they kind of fit into our thing, it’s just like, well, that it’s an it, you know, it’s interesting thing. There’s so there’s there’s trauma, bonding, there’s drama, bonding, there’s all these ways that people habitually connect with one another. And what I hear is that like, sovereignty, there’s a level of peace. Yes, in the pond,

in them in it.

You’re in it? No. And like the all of the examining, that like, oh, ruminating Shin didn’t like the preparation and the rumination, like, I just don’t, I’m like, I’m just so about, I want to be in this minute. I want to know how I feel in this minute. Right, right. It was actually kind of funny. This, I don’t know if we’re supposed to, I’m just gonna talk because, yes, tucked away, like I was on this date. This gentleman asked me if I would get married again.

And this is our first date. And so there definitely was like, a little thing in my mind was like, why are you asking me?

Like, actually, the question is, why are you acting?

And I said, Yeah, I probably get married one more time. And, you know, I don’t know if you know who abraham hicks is, but when I get married next, I’m gonna use abraham hicks valance. And what is that? And I said, it goes like this. I really like you. Let’s see how this goes. I have been, let’s see how today is the next two years? And yes, there’s some like life creating and planning and things that you do, but also, like, let’s be in today. And like, how does this you know, how are we today? Right? Right. It goes today. And so he thought that was funny. And he said, well, on a first day do for like, start playing and moving forward to see if you can see, you can imagine yourself being this person for 30 years. And I said and what and the truth is I used to

for sure know, what I said is you know, right now, I just want to see if I’m like am I thinking about work during the meet because I love my work. I love writing I Love You know, I love my three year old, there’s so many things that generally I I’d rather be doing than be on a date 100% Even though like I also enjoy being on dates. So I’m like, that’s kind of what I think about is am I more interested in this date than I am in being on a playground with my three year

old I’m more interested in this date in this moment

than I am in working on my book or teaching and like, if in this moment, the date is more captivating than that. That’s That’s great. That’s fun. Like how much fun can we have right now in like in each other’s presence? Right? Well, in that what I hear is how much are we in the stream together? How much are we? How much are we being invited into present time together and what you’re paying attention to what? Like your thoughts but also what’s happening inside your body? Yes. Is this feel good now?

Right, rather than getting away at literally we use these expressions but getting ahead of yourself. Yes. And like, Yeah, I mean, but so, so often we do live in our heads and in not present time, storytelling about 30 years ago, 20 years ago, last week,

five years from now, you know, and I think as you come more and more to truly understand and just like be in your be in love with your own self, and your own worth, and your own lights, there’s nothing, you know,

there’s nothing, are there things that, you know, we want to work on or work towards? Sure, yeah. But not like not from a place of dissatisfaction, it becomes so much more ease to just be in this moment. Because like, because this moment is all there is. And like, it’s useful to be in your 40s or 50s, or 70s, or 90s, because you’ve had enough, you get the experience. And this I say for like people also who are in their 30s and 20s. Like, once you can look forward to it. And to see you can you know, be intentional about the feedback mechanism in of your life right now, as you live it, but there is no there is no there like you have these goals in our culture. So goal obsessed.

It’s easy to be goal obsessed, the the accomplishment of the goal, whether the goal is, you know, marriage or partner meeting or

a certain income target, or whatever the accomplishment is having kids for people that the accomplishment of that bowl is is like a fraction of a second, like you get there. And then you’re like, oh, cool, okay, so all of the rest of your life is there’s always something else to want and to work for and to desire. But most of life is like the it’s the right now. You know? Yeah, there’s, you know, one of the things that that happens, and I think you know, when you talk about your 40s 50s 60s, etc, hopefully, and this isn’t the case, because I see a lot of people suffering at all ages. But that your point of reference, you hopefully become more self referential, and listen to what brings me alive, just like it’s like Marie Kondo in your whole life, right? Like, that’s how do I love this experience? In this moment? What’s happening in my body? Does this bring me more alive versus, you know, being in the, in the trapped in the collective unconscious, and your religious agendas, your parents agendas for, like, I have to do this thing to be considered successful, or to be loved. And instead, you’re able to use your own body as a feedback mechanism? Yes, it that’s, that’s it, that’s what it is. It’s like the instance, your best friend, your best friend in this life is like the somatic inner guidance that’s available to you, it kind of will take you everywhere you ever want to go anyway, just in a really much more joyful way.

The hard hustle grind way, but you know, we’re taught very early in life to start disregarding it.

And I see it because I do have a three year old right, so I just I see how often children children are taught to bind themselves and to sit on the activity rug, and to not let their bodies be everywhere. And they’re like, labeled, and I’m like, well, literally, it’s their job to be everywhere. Like the entire job of a three year olds is to be wild.

And to play, that’s why they’re wired like that. But that doesn’t fit into the like, calendar slots.

You know, and it certainly doesn’t fit into the, for evaluating people. And their performance. That is, you know, a state of the standard kind of educational approach. So very early, we’re taught to like, keep quiet in whole rein it in, and be still and not listen, I mean, kids will say stuff that’s very uncomfortable.

My London will say, she will literally like meet somebody and be like, I don’t like your silly mustache, just flat out. Like could that’s just how I feel about it is I don’t like your silliness to

love it. Because so there’s some level of like, socialization that is repressive. Like socialization is repressive. By definition. We are like teaching were domesticating ourselves, but then like, then where’s the Lonnie? Right, absolutely. I mean, you know, so

Most often people are trained out of their intuition.

They’re trained out of their bodily notes. And we learn to tell people why you’re not say why your teeth sell yellow, like some of that stuff kind of serves us, you know? And it’s it, you know, raises a really important question. It’s like, okay, so you kind of have a redo, you’ve got this grand grandchild that you’re raising, and what are you doing differently this time around? Or what are you making sure to, like set boundaries with other people who are trying to repress your granddaughter? Right? Different? It’s so funny because I actually say,

I say my old my old kids get got the first pancake mom. So I raised my kids starting when I was 17. I had two boys are now 20 and 29. And now I’m adopting my three year old granddaughter who I’ve been raising for two years full time, and she gets a really different

version. Am I allowed to curse on this podcast? Go for it. I have no idea. Do it. I’m a, I was a two year old who was like, fuck, fuck, fuck. So you know, wonderful. It’s really hard to do that.

I was at the playground with her the other day. And this dad walked up to me and was like, Hi, I’m Byron. And I asked him some questions about your kid. I was like, what is happening? And he’s like, Well, she just seems as she was accomplishing. I was like I said, She seems very like I said, She’s three. She’s just very tall for three. Yeah. And it said, Yeah, but she seems very outgoing. Like personality wise, she’s got this like, just like leading a trip kids like to go do a thing just on a mission. And he’s like, are those your friends from district to prescribe? Those are responding? No, she has met those kids just now. And he’s like, do you see my daughter sitting there in the sandbox? Like she went over because London was wearing like a rainbow to to to the park, which is what we do. He’s like, she saw your daughter’s dress. She wanted to go play with your daughter. And she like went over there. But she never said like, will you play with me? Or can I play with you by so the other you like London went off with the kids and like the Squirrel Girl sitting over in the sandbox kind of pining away when I’m like, Girl, let’s, let’s go play golf together.

And so we talked about it a bit. And he talked about how he’s impressed on his daughter because of COVID. Not to be near people. And yeah, talked about how she was already super shy. And he worries that maybe they’ve like reinforced that and like, Yeah, that’s interesting. I’ve never mentioned COVID

Like Len because in part because my career is around is code is seeing people’s fear and coaching them out, isn’t it? So I know that we’re born with none, almost none. Like we’re born with the fear of falling fear of loud noises like every other fear we get we acquire. So like when London came to my chair, it was a very intentional and obvious sort of parenting philosophical approach that I would take to try to minimize one to try to keep cultural bs off of her. As long as I could

write like long enough, ideally, for her own self sovereignty to take root. I never want her to feel dominated

by a big person. I do not want her to feel rushed. Like I literally made these like agreements with myself, I spend a lot of my life creating a life that minimizes the times that she feels rushed, so that she might know her own natural rhythms.

I spend a lot of my time being proactive in my parenting so that I’m not so I’m setting all of us up for success, including like managing our time commitments, we’re both really social, we would be out and we often are on the weekends out doing this and and then and then this and then that all day, but I gotta watch her rhythms. I gotta watch her energy I can see when she’s tired is when she spins out. So I don’t instead of trying to address the spin out, or make her Be quiet, because she cuz she’s freaking out because she’s melting down. Like if I have a valid, I put her in a situation where she ends up melting down, she gets to melt down. She just gets to melt down without me. I mean, my response is apparent then is to get her to situation where she can rest, if not to try to make the meltdown goal. Right, right. So like we recently went on a trip and we took a nanny with us. And there was a there was like a day I had an appointment. So I was gonna go to this appointment. And Landon was upset that I was leaving. And she was the citrus about it. She’s loud, nomadic.

And the nanny kind of was doing this thing where she was like, I could see how uncomfortable he was making the nanny that London wasn’t

set. And so she was like trying to talk her out of being upset and you shouldn’t we’re gonna do this, we’re gonna do that. And she was like, I’m just like, let’s leave him alone, goodbye. And I’m like, you know why she’s upset because I’m a mom. And we’re born, we’re attached. And so when I go, like, she feels upset, and that is appropriate. And she knows I’ll be back. And she knows, you know what I mean? And yes, you guys will have fun and whatever, but she gets to be upset. Let her be upset. Yes. Let her be let her. So that’s my commitment is to preserve to the best I can. I’m definitely not perfect. But to preserve her natural little ability to feel all of her feelings, even the ones that may be uncomfortable for me or other big people, right? Feel it all know that you are deeply loved. Run through it all. There’s nothing you can do to or you don’t have to perform to earn more or less. You can’t I already loved the maximum period I asked how much do I love you? She says maximum as right already. There’s no performing. Do good at school if you want to. Yeah, feels good and you’d like to learn, but like not to get more love for me. That’s not possible. But anyway, so back to Byron Byron on the playground was like But you know, don’t you he was like sometimes parents we just want them to like, show other people like how smart they are or whatever. And I was like Byron, here’s my parents you need by having parented before, smile like parented before we parented myself re parenting with my clients, parenting Lenin right now, my advice, when you feel that you want other people to approve of your child is to buck them people, bug them people,

period, that is my advice. And he was like, what do you do for a living? I was like, I’m a life coach. Now you can’t hurt me by.


you’re not even the kind of person I worked with was not the kind of robot work on but like, how can people this is your child’s spirit? Well, it’s, you know, what you’re speaking to, right is applying all of the stuff around, like, Okay, if I could go back in time and look at all the things that have oppressed me, it’s like repression of emotional experience. And what you’re speaking to is, whatever a parent’s capacity or an adult’s capacity is to be with their own emotions, if they are repressed on an emotional level, like whether it’s joy or grief or rage. They cannot tolerate it and another little being and they’re going to shut it down and freak out. They can and then the kid very quickly, because kids watch, they are watching Oh, yeah, I don’t even necessarily have to say because I see it in the leg, more conscious parents who are trying, like they know they shouldn’t be like, don’t cry. But the kid cries and they’re still kind of like freaking out.

They’re trying to like solve it, or talk them out of it, whatever, or they’re just their nervous system is very dysregulated. By the by the crying, kids see that? And they don’t want you to feel that way. So they’ll they’ll stuff it in 100%. And, you know, I would love to do a check in podcast in 10 to 20 years and see the vibrant, you know, buoyant sexuality and creative self expression of this little one, you know, and it’s like such an interesting Imagine if instead of the productivity log, we log this kind of stuff. Oh my gosh, you I keep this book that’s like all the wild stuff Jesus says and

allow that would never I would never have been allowed to write because it’s uncomfortable. Because there are times like we’re talking about, like the kind of, you know, brilliant parts, but there are times when, like she’ll she has said, Mommy, you’re stupid.

Right? Like, if you’re, if you will, if you want your child to be an unruly pressed human being as an adult, then you can’t repress them on the stuff that’s uncomfortable for you, your kids, you kind of gotta take it all. You know, I mean, and it’s you and the only way to do it truly is to do your own inner work well, because otherwise if you have a sensitive ouchy spot about being stupid, you’re gonna lash out right? You’re not gonna take it in a context of this is a three year old and this is a momentary response. Right? And by the way, I know I’m actually not stupid. So but But what you’re saying is like very real though, like if you think about I mean, I know like in our in black culture, that is like that would be a crazy thing for a child to be let to say right like that would be definitely grounds for severe punishment. I would never have said such a thing to my parents. But that’s still that inner repression is like

But I want her inner repression to be around like not walking in the street, in front cards, like not jumping in the deep end before you can really slam let’s stuff like that, but not around saying what’s real for her. And in that moment, the best language she had for how she felt about me was mom, and you’re stupid, right? Well, you know what, what’s important that I’m thinking of is, is people who play kind of devil’s advocate, when I’ve talked to people about the work that I do and allowing, it’s like, oh, defining trauma as unexpressed impulses in the face of something that feels so overwhelming. So freezing, stuffing the impulse to fight back to speak out to run. And then, you know, I’ve spoken to men in particular who’ve had the response of like wolves, or you giving a free pass to just punch people out or to do these things or to, you know, like, the fear is that, well, if people don’t stop certain impulses, they’ll be violent, they’ll, you know, sexually act out, they’ll do all these things that are so out of control. It’s such a fascinating look at the assumption about how humans really how an untainted humans really are unknown humans, because that’s, I mean, like, very few little little kids are really that out there. And often, when they are out there, it’s, you know, a sign that they are feeling very misunderstood, or very dysregulated, or have been, you know, wounded or abused. I was talking with my own parenting coach the other day about how like, you know, I’m trying to think of like a conscious way to get London off the playgrounds. She’s not when I go. And actually what I tend to do now is just like, go when I can be leisurely, go. And I don’t mean that I mean, and she’ll pull yourself out. But it’ll take a long time. She’s very energetic, and she needs that physical activity. But I said to my parenting coach, I was like, it’s funny, because I see other kids kind of push back a little bit, but for the most part, like kids kind of go when their parents tell them to go, and she was like, have you see three year olds that are just like, very docile ly calling when their parents say, Go, they’ve likely been punished. That’s not actually that.

Like, oh, 100% I can remember being with my friends, two or three year old and we and we left the playground and she was in her car seat. She was sobbing, screaming uncontrollably, and my friend was really good with her kid. And but but she was like, you’re having big feelings? You know?

She just, you know, no, I mean, it was like, You were torturing this child, because she really didn’t want to leave the swing. Yeah, I mean, that swing, the Marian ground is for us. Yeah, but yet, but that was so fascinating that what we think of we can’t we don’t even have anymore and well calibrated read on what is what is normal, and what is not normal behavior in kids or in humans, because we’ve seen the toxic version or the punished version or the wounded version, or the whatever, so that this so that someone would say, Well, gosh, without repression people would be violent and do pie people are doing that now, sir. Right. Like people are doing that now. Because they feel wounded, miss, you know, and repressed and all like all of that stuff. Yeah. So, you know, along these lines,

thinking about, it’s kind of becoming coming back to the to the inner critic. Right? And if the if there, if people’s inner critic was disarmed, how do you how do you see that it would shift their sex lives shift their intimate relationship to themselves, not just, you know, how they feel about themselves, but their, their own sensuality and their own sensual self expression and creative self expression. I think when when I see when I’m we do our inner critic work, we see our selves become naturally more lavish with ourselves

and also with others, but it becomes much more easy to, to read, to give and receive pleasure and love, and cherishing and adoration in ways that you know, are authentic to us, not necessarily dictated by some, you know, by church or whatever. And like, the world of relationships feels much more abundant. It feels like just everything else in this universe, which is very abundant. So, like our scarcity, self talk about like, you know, who like nobody will be attracted to me. I can’t, you know, dress a certain way or I have to dress a certain way to you know, be attractive. There’s no one I

actually hadn’t someone say and if fear she had a fear, or the way she was talking to herself about like dating prospects that were available to her, was very to me inner critic driven it was like, because your inner critic is not just self critical, your inner critic is like critical about the world. In your Yeah, you know what I mean? So like, your inner critic will tell you, there’s no body on Earth who will find you attractive, there’s no endzone like one person that would work for you, your critic will tell you, the people who like Don’t you, you can’t get on dating apps, because those people are all stupid. They’re all this one woman was like, I have this story. In my mind, people are all like, stupid, or issues, some very derogatory, it’s because your inner critic is harsh inner critic sort of savage. You know, everybody’s on their own, there’s going to be out of shape and everybody on there’s going to be old and she’s like, and like, she’s like, I actually kind of identify some of those things. But I don’t want to be dating people who like are all I’m like, yeah, that’s all inner critic lies. Oh, my God, critic wants you to stay safe, does not want you to feel exposed, it does not want you to feel vulnerable. Right. And when you come out from under the influence of that, and you cultivate that sense of like, I’m good. Regardless, you can, like date with freedom and not date with freedom. If you don’t feel like it. You can practice just, you know, deciding more how you want to feel and like, like I’ve done this exercise or guided this exercise before, will you sort of like write to yourself, be like the most lavish out there over the top love letter that you would ever want a letter to write to you. And then you begin to give those things tears

began to treat you like are you actually treating yourself in that way? Most people are not. Right, right. So in other people can’t really give you on an emotional level on a pleasure level things that you’re not really willing to even give yourself. So it’s funny once you start to do that, yeah, I I found what I started to do that I became much more kind of I was divorced, I became much more comfortable. Like actually getting on dating apps, I set myself up on a DIY dating challenge. I don’t know if you know this about me. But I went on three dates a week for 10 weeks, which was like disaster and like a full time for a job. But like, I did it because I needed to get in the flow I needed in the flow of life. I needed to I had never dated because of my background. I was married the first time when I was 16. And I got married to the first person I went on a date with when I got divorced, tenure, like seven years later, and we were married for like seven years. So I was literally like 35 years old. And I had never been on a date in my adult life. Yeah, yes. flurry of dating on apps.

And then I credit came off the apps because I was so like, enamored with my own inner guidance at that point, that I would find like I would just meet people everywhere. And even though I had to kind of like I was in that state of mind where I was like, Oh, hey, if people date on App salt and I want to date then I’ll be on apps, I would find myself at like the same conferences I’d been at for a jillion years but like meeting eligible people who were interesting and attracted to me and I like it just that cool. It was like kind of everywhere I went between that well, and then what you’re speaking to is that you know when we have a belief system

we and we have receptors only for to support that belief system. And so if we suddenly sprout we have an intention and a practice that we’re engaging in, we suddenly sprout new little tendrils that can receive I’m picturing like, if you’re if your skin if you could have little what are those? What are those plants that eat flies now the Venus fly traps on snapdragons like Venus fly traps that are up like these little these little green teeth that are open to receiving and eating and the nourishment that’s available rather than you know? Totally that is literally the process. We have these lenses of our patterns and our beliefs and our identity and we can’t even see that like those lenses filter of what opportunities people resources were even able to see. Right? Yes, a lot. And so I think by doing that work, you kind of shift the you shift the beliefs and then there’s like kind of people everywhere when you want them to be and they react differently to you because when your inner sovereignty people react different they’re, you know, the sacred contracts that you maybe once had to get into relationships with them.

You know, that have toxic dynamics, when you do the work on your shit. You tend not to bring that that’s not who is attracted to you as much right? Right now I am saying that I’m trying to be intentional about my language because I’m not a big fan of being like that person’s tested, that person is toxic, but I do think are magnets with people can be very toxic? Well, this is this, you know, we’re going to start to wrap up. But I feel like we could do a whole other hour solely on spiritual dating.

Because, because the thing is that what you’re what you’re also speaking to is, you know that we have this information, we are all psychic, and we have this information in our energetic field. And until we filed it until we’ve completed and cleared out certain things, it is, it’s like an open folder with the information and we magnetize and we and we are drawn to those people to complete that stuff with and they are drawn to us until we’ve you know, gotten Okay, I got it. I got the boundary memo and I am now solid here and I don’t need to keep having my boundaries pushed by randos. Yeah, I’m like, Thank you for helping me thank you for being my spiritual teacher. And by have I talk to you?

Did I tell you what I call that I call that our asshole angels. And

right people who help us unearth what we really need the muscles, we need to develop the practice that we need to get or the insight that we need to get. And we’ll keep getting asil angels that illuminate that for us. That’s it until the day that we’re like they’re in and it changes the game like I’ve ever had was talking to my students about this where I’m kind of like when I want to date I kind of can just make the phone ring.

I can kind of just make the person knock on the door. I don’t really have to you know what I mean? And it’s not that and it’s just not the fixation anymore. Those are the things that shift in that the younger students of mine will post about, like fish that you know, one of the state or I did this or whatever, like what would you do when I’m like it? No, this stage? I just wouldn’t, I wouldn’t. I have a force field.

And I’m not actively keeping it there. You know, with effort. It’s just a forcefield I don’t even end up people like to do shit like that in my

world. So the upgrade is real. The under impression upgrade is real. Right? Right.

Oh my god, we could totally keep talking and I so I look forward to spending the day with you in a couple of weeks. And it’s been such a pleasure. Thanks for having me. I totally enjoy you and I wish you could all see her because she really is a sexy church lady. Just a really beautiful, beautiful, beautiful woman.

I’m trying to like bring me to church lady and grandmother which are very

paradoxical is it’s like a guilt. Is that would that be the term? Oh, maybe as ungraceful is that term that you’re a girl for sure that milk wasn’t that great. So either so why not?


so much love to you. You too, right.

So whether we’re unwinding or unwrap pressing, the hope is to find more opening and aliveness to allow you to live a fuller existence. If you learn something new from this podcast, please like, share and review it so more people can find our community. Find it wherever you get your podcasts just search laid open podcast. You can also send questions to late open podcast@gmail.com And please follow us on Facebook and Instagram at laid open podcast. You can also reach Tara and read more about her work at soul tour.com and on Instagram. Tara Nicole Kirk withany.

I look forward to seeing you next time.


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© 2022 By Charna Cassell, LMFT. Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. MFC 51238.

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