The Art of Dearmoring the Cervix and Transcendent Sex

This week on LaidOPEN Podcast, Charna speaks with Olivia Bryant, the founder of Self:Cervix. Self:Cervix is a movement dedicated to educating and experiencing the orgasmic cervix. Olivia’s mission is to share this information with cervix owners, their partners and people worldwide to aid in shifting and expanding the conversation around female sexuality. They discuss the value of practice, the connection between spirituality and sexuality, how to heal, surrender and have more connected sex with self and other.

Olivia guides us through an exercise in discovering your cervix and gaining pelvic presence.

photograph courtesy of .

Show Notes

Hi everyone. This is Charna Caselle with the Laid Open podcast and I am so excited tonight to be speaking with Olivia Bryant who is the founder of Self Cervix. It’s a movement dedicated to educating and experiencing the orgasmic cervix. Her mission is to share this information with women cervix owners worldwide to shift and expand the conversation around female sexuality. 

Welcome, Olivia. I’m so happy to get to have this conversation with you.

Yeah, me too. I always love to talk about the cervix. So, yes, let’s get into it.

I discovered your work. So I’m writing a book about healing from sexual trauma and broadening the definition of what sexual trauma is to include you know, and all forms of trauma that restrict our lifeforce our response to these forms of trauma that then squeeze down on our life force and prevent sexual self expression. Okay. And so I was researching, I was writing, you know, like, kind of like the neuroscience of and looking at the brain science of trauma and looking at the vagus nerve. And I was thinking about it as it relates to orgasm. And I was getting really curious. And I started trying to do research, and I was finding nothing. And this was a couple of years ago. And there was one, you know, and I discovered you on Instagram. And there was one other article that I had found, and I was just so excited by what you had to say. And so I would love for you to share a little bit about how you came to this work.

You’re gonna say how you came to the Vegas?

I absolutely want to I really want to get into that. But I want to give people a little bit of context because I. Yeah, that’s the I always laugh because I think I was a very, very kind of exactly constricted with sort of sexual trauma, not of the like, macro kind, just the sort of what we call micro traumas every day shame and all of those things that cause us to restrict our lifeforce. Exactly. And in my 20s, I, it caused me to leave a relationship and I just, you know, felt very stuck in that area. And at 25 I started going, Okay, I need to change I need to do something about this. And, you know, that was a fairly, it was a decent long time ago now. And Sex and the City was just coming out with the vibrators and you know, everything I was like, Okay, I’m gonna go and get myself a vibrator. You know, and it was just a big deal back then. And I only became, you know, clitoral, the orgasmic in my 20s. And, you know, I think I share a story of so many women and with services that we sort of find our way into sexuality by making mistakes, figuring things out, you know, fumbling around in the dark, hoping for the best. And I eventually realized I needed to do some training in sexuality and sexology. And I was that, you know, there’s a movie called Shortbus. And it’s about it’s amazing. It’s such a good movie about sexuality, and that in it, there’s a sex therapist who’s really sexually repressed, and it kind of reminds me of myself, like, super sexually repressed sex therapists with a footlong vibrator just completely and utterly frustrated. Still on it on a very, like decent mission to help women heal shame. I thought if I can do anything I can, at least at least I can take care of that aspect. I don’t know what I can do about orgasm. That felt to me like one of those stories where it’s like, oh, it’s just not my body. It’s just not meant for me all those other people. They can have amazing orgasms, but no, I guess it’s just not the way I’m wired. So it was only by luck that you know, through bad luck sometimes you are often our it’s our injuries that, you know, lead us towards our greatest teachers and gifts. And I had a really terrible relationship and my whole body was, you know, my pelvis muscles were kind of caving in, and I was just like, oh, so tight and constricted. I was like a big notice sex. And I just got pretty low. And I thought, I’m just going to quit sex therapy. This is ridiculous. It’s a huge mountain. I can’t, I can’t even you know, put down my vibrator. And I found myself in Bali. And I went, and I had a internal bodywork session. And the body worker had his finger on my cervix and said, Do you feel anything? And I said, No, I don’t feel anything. Nothing at all. And because of my research, I knew that the cervix did have a lot of neuro neural pathways to the brain. There’s three actually. And I thought to myself, well, that’s interesting. He is this highly sensitive organ in the body and my body, and I can’t even feel it does isn’t that curious? And I wonder if that has anything to do with why I have such limited orgasmic range. And so I went on a bit of a mission to start stimulating my cervix every day, but it was so so boring, because I don’t really feel much. And I always actually say to people, I’m like, Okay, you guys is can be a little bit more, just to let you know. And some days, you might feel like, you’ll never feel pleasure again. Because if you’re so used to stimulating the clitoris, and then you go inside of yourself, and you’re expecting to have like, you know, and you feel numbness, it’s a bit of a road a journey. And so I stopped altogether. And I actually just because I forgot really, it was just so uninspiring. And then I started a support group for myself and asked if anybody wanted to stimulate their cervix with me, and I really just thought it might be like 10 of my weird friends here in Melbourne. And it was actually 1200 women and around the world and I say women as I just want to just acknowledge people with a cervix, though I do seem to I suppose I’m a cisgendered. Hetero woman, woman. So I’d seem to attract people like me, but, you know, generally this conversation applies to anyone with a cervix. So So yeah, this whole group kind of arrived and was sort of staring at me like, Okay, what do we do now? And I was like, I have no idea.

And I just started going on this mission and a quest, you know, and I, you know, I was single, and I was just like, Okay, I guess this is what I’m going to do now. So I’m going to figure this out. And I was overseas, and I just started trying to meet anyone that had any information about the cervix, I was talking to trauma therapists and doctors and midwives and tantra people and and it was a very, they were just really wasn’t I gotten most of my education from midwives actually. And, and then the rest of it was through my own body and through the community just working together and seeing what was working and what was not working. I did a lot of plant medicine work, journeying, like really trying to contact some, some kind of wisdom that was beyond me. I mean, honestly, that’s where it was, because what came up in these journeys was very deep. And I realized, like, it was territory that, you know, on one hand, there was pleasure and empowerment, it was like, oh, yeah, we’re gonna claim back the cervix because it’s so medicalized and associated with only birthing and HPV and cancer and IUDs and abortions, and you know, all of the medicalization. So it’s like, yeah, we’re gonna claim this back as part of our orgasmic anatomy, whether or not we feel anything, and some people did, but other people did. But a lot of people had numbness and pain. And it brought up a lot of anger, a lot of a lot of grief, a lot of like, you know, all we’ve all of it was a big mirror to all of the things that we you know, ask feelings of inadequacy, our feelings of wanting to hurry up and feel and put pressure on ourselves and everything that we’ve been, we’ve learned through this patriarchal system. And so it was this big mirror. And so I realized, like, wow, actually, this is really deep, and that is what kind of led me towards berrier commissar X work who he detailed the, the connection to the cervix, that is the vagus nerve. And, and it just all made so much sense to me, that if there you know, how we feel about our sexuality, the things that have to happen to the cervix, ranging from pap smears to all the things that I mentioned Before even to having sex before we might be ready and then the cervix gets a good whack and number of times, you know what message because the signals from the vagus, the signals go from the cervix to the brain 80% of the signals go upwards and the vagus. So if the cervix is not having great experiences, if there’s internalized trauma of any kind, like, what message is that sending up to the vagus? And is it any wonder with all of the constriction around the vagus, that it can be hard to experience these amazing, blissful orgasmic states. And so working with, you know, having this nervous system approach to the to orgasm was huge, because, you know, I’ve never really heard anybody talk about it from this angle, that there’s nothing wrong with you just got a system that’s protecting you. And so now your work is to figure out how to create safety on multiple levels. Yes, like neurologically, physically, spiritually, emotionally relationally, you know, and retrain the tissue that it’s set in the body that it’s safe to receive this touch, so that the freeze in the body can ultimately melt. And the cool thing about the vagus and this, by the way, is not proven at all, because there’s just no research. But my my theory is, you know, you hear about people who have IUDs, put in the cervix, and other procedures to the cervix, like the late procedure, and they blackout or pass out. And that is the deeper mobilization. That’s the mobilization now dorsal vagus shutdown response, but on the safe side, it is this deeply, deeply restful place, deep, restful place. And my sense is that when cervical orgasm, we go into a kind of, we go into sort of a blended state between this deep immobilization, and this kind of safe mobilization, it kind of like dances between the two. Because for me, cervical orgasm is like a giant pause. And it you know, it like, it’s like breath stops, it’s just like, a little death, you know, so I can sort of see that it’s this safe immobilization, too. So that’s a roundup of the vagus. And my story all in one. I love it. 

There’s so much there’s so many moments along that story that I was like, Oh, hmm. And you know, you’ve landed right in one of the places. So I want to share with you, you know, I’ve done some of your so so Olivia offers these beautiful programs that you can do online and through a Facebook community as well. And what it’s really lovely, what I really like about it is that there’s, it’s not like there’s one course for everyone. There’s an easing you in, and there are these really lovely guided meditations to get to know your anatomy. And I often with my own clients, guide them through and assign mindful masturbation practices. Yeah. And one of the things that you say that I really appreciate because I, I’ll give an assignment that’s like, Okay, I think the pelvic floor didn’t move abunda. And pulling up on the pelvic floor is something that people know from Pilates and yoga and all of these practices, but the relaxing, and the breathing out of the pelvic floor, and the access that that brings, you know, emotionally, psychologically, physically so much that you can heal by softening this part of your body, right? And so I tell people, I’m like, okay, breathe out your asshole. Or imagine if you’re sitting on a on a mirror that you could fog the mirror with your breath, you know? And then I love that you say a cervical sigh. Right? That’s something that that I that I have adopted. And also, and because it’s that deep, it’s like deep sighing from deep inside yourself, but sighing down into the earth, right? And so so now I’ve I’ve meandered to five different things. But what I want to come back to which is really exciting to me is there’s something I think there’s one podcast that I heard you speak in, and I don’t know if this is from you, or if this is from some other research that I did, but the connection between the cervix and the pineal gland, cervix as a portal to spiritual awakening. And I’ve had my own way, you know, we can talk we’ll get into meditation, but I’m curious if you can say more about that,

Oh my gosh, wow, that’s so okay. So again, it’s another area that is no kind of proof with it. But what we what, what we believe through experiences through catching and tracking a lot of people’s experiences is that DMT is released in the brain during cervical orgasm. And so for your listeners who don’t know, DMT is the psychoactive substance. That is a lot of things in nature, and particularly mostly famous for it being found in Alaska, the plant medicine and you know, you can smoke DMT. And you can have these kind of psychedelic journeys, but it’s also endogenous in the body, and there is they dropped the ball on the research of endogenous DMT. Because it’s very, very hard to measure, like, the moment of orgasm, someone sticks a needle in your arm and measures what’s going on in your blood. Like it’s very, very hard to measure, like what’s going on in the brain. And so, also tends to be researchers always, often the funding goes to pathology, rather than like, Oh, this is amazing what’s going on here. So we don’t know. But that’s what we imagine. And like the vagus goes not directly into the pineal gland, but it goes like around this areas of the brain that actually are connected directly to the pineal gland. So it’s kind of like, like links, links all the way to something awakens this, which awakens this, which awakens the pineal gland. So, you know, that is one theory that you know, and there’s a beautiful other link as well, like, you know, the Egyptian Eye of Horus was said to be like the pineal gland, but it’s also like a symbol of the cervix, you know, that the seer and the cervix, both kind of portals to the universe and two ends of the body, which I think is a beautiful imagery. And so really, that’s all I have to say about that other. So it is, this is why I’m so beautiful, I find the cervix in this work, I am so enchanted by it, because on one hand through one direction through the cert, so that’s passing through the cervix, we come into life, and we come into physical manifestation, right, so that’s one pass through the cervix, one direction, we call it descending current. And then the other direction, you go back to the non physical, basically, potentially where we came from, you know, and so it’s this incredible, like, you know, two way, two way pass into manifestation and into the non physical and I just find that, absolutely, I’m so enchanted by that idea that I like it. To me, it’s crazy that this isn’t more widely, widely known about also not surprising, you know, that we can actually have this spiritually awakened experience within our own body, through sex, through intimacy with ourselves. And because sex is so shamed, so taboo, all of this stuff is literally hidden in the dark, that most people don’t actually have this kind of awareness or x access, most people don’t even have context that their cervix could potentially be pleasurable. So there isn’t really any. Like, you know, things changed for me sexually, when I started being really aware of my cervix, and also doing the work that I do around the cervix, that when I’d be making love, I would actually get my partner and I would like he would say, Oh, I’m on your cervix, and it would just completely open up my experience. And I think, yeah, there’s a lot of, there’s a big missing piece that I’m trying to translate here. And that really, I think, ultimately, as we can see going on in humanity, now there’s a big shift in consciousness. And I think, you know, out sexually awakened state is another one of these pinnacles of awakening, along with like meditation and you know, the other practices that we do in order to return to non duality. We can also experience that through the cervix, cervical orgasm, and perhaps there’s more ways within the body, you know, breathing breathwork also, you know, they they know that there’s endogenous DMT in the lungs can be found in a mouse mice lungs, so, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that there’s a connection that we share around. You’re familiar with Dr. Joe Dispenza. His work as well. Yes. And I found his work when I was in a physical healing crisis, unable to digest anything we had, you know, had a bunch of different health things that I was dealing with. And, you know, I healed through a lot through his work the guided meditations and you know, and so one of the things Things that I, I’ve got through doing his work and I’ve done his work for almost 10 years now. Is is achieving or you know, whole body orgasm, simply through meditation, right? And I’m not the only one there that you can hear the other people like these sometimes these retreats are like 1000 people and you can hear it happening. And so just like involuntary shaking in intense amounts of pleasure simply through breathing and being present, right. And so what I also want to say, you know, I used to work at good vibrations and when I came to work a good vibrations so I Loved You know, I started kind of being you know, being a sexuality educator and and love teaching women about their clitoral legs and, and their chi spots and helping people who were in their 80s and never had an orgasm have an orgasm, but also men heal their own shame around like, how can you have other for, you know, other kinds of pleasure and other kinds of sex that isn’t so penis centric, right? Like, if you’re not able to get it up, what else can you do? Let’s get creative. And so one of the things So Carol Queen, who is you know, yeah, she she gave me my first tour of good vibration. She She oriented people write that book exhibition. Yes. Yes, ism fisheye. And so my life changing book, right. And so I also wanted to say that, you know, I also have as a result of sexual trauma, you know, people can sometimes become, I was kind of this funny mix of the two of like, overly sexualized and inappropriate verbally, but a total sexual aversion. And so that book, I read that book in college, and it was like, I had to get my brain intellectually engaged and understanding around sexuality and sexual self expression, before I could safely engage my body. 

And then somatic work, like I had to locate physical safety inside myself before I could start to feel and really accept myself as a sexual being, even though I came out as a teenager, right? So it was like, in one way, I was really out there sexually educating people. And there’s another way that I was, you know, I would talk about cock rings and then go in the back and be like, Why do people like, like, I get triggered, you know, and so one of the things that Carol said, I remember she was talking about the cervix, and because I was not much of a, you know, I had very little penetrative choice for penetrative sex. And she mentioned, you know, oh, yeah, the a lot of women don’t like their cervix to be touched because it’s painful. And that was all I had to go on that was this information. Right? So there’s this pain or numbness right and, and what I know from doing somatic body work, you know, it’s the same thing it’s like there’s often hyper aroused or hypo aroused, nervous systems and in the body, it trauma shows up as tension pain, slackness numbness, right. And so why would the cervix be any different it embodies the exact same messages of shame so emotional and physical experiences live in that tissue. And, and what’s beautiful about your work and why I send my clients the process of de armoring your insides with a level of patience, and hair, and gentleness. And you know, that you can do this on your own. And of course, it’s great to have a guide and have, you know, a practitioner who can offer that to you, but, so I just want to make sure that that people realize they can be doing that. 

Yeah, and I do it as a practice, you know, like, especially if I know I’ve been going through some stressful times, like vaginally, I just pull everything up and then was, you know, back to what you were speaking about before, you know, the obsession around like, pull up, pull up Jade egg up, you know, and it’s like, actually, in my methodology, it’s relaxed down, relax down, forget about that. Because most people most of us are walking around with a lot of tension, a lot of muscle imbalance, a lot of like, up in our heads all the time looking at screens, stress business, we don’t need more up your vagina knows how to do that. What it actually mostly that our body workers have found is we need a lot of doubt a lot of relaxing and so I know that when I’ve been going through stress, I use my wand and sometimes my finger as well. I just want to speak out and say that, you know, it’s actually can be very confronting, if you’re not used to exploring inside of yourself. So just take your time and and as you know, just be very aware, if you judge that experience or shame yourself or put pressure on yourself, you know, it’s not surprising that it can Be it can bring up stuff because we’ve been so shamed about masturbation and, you know, vaginas in general. So exploring can bring up feelings of repulsion. That’s pretty normal that we would like to change that over time, as we start to realize why why do we have these difficult feelings? Where did that actually come from? Because, yeah, it doesn’t come from the Mother Earth, you know, it’s like, you know, it’s exploring with your fingers is very valid, if you don’t have a wand, and yammering with a wand is also really beneficial. It is an ongoing practice for me just like a yoga yoga practice, it’s like every muscle in your body, it needs to be stretched out, you know, and so that’s what we’re doing. And and the other part that you were saying is like, touching gently and being patient, and, you know, what I was saying earlier about the tissue needs to trust and your body needs to trust now, that actually it can lean into, you can lean back, it can soften, it can sigh, it can give it up, you know, it doesn’t have to hold anymore. And who knows how long that will take, because who knows how long you’ve been holding it, it might not even be yours, it might be your grandmother’s, it might be your mother’s. And so we are doing this work into different intergenerational reasons, we are clearing the body. And, and, you know, I, when I started this work, I was really prepared for that, that to be the work. And for that to be the lifelong journey, I might never have an orgasm, I didn’t, I was just like, I need to focus on other things. Not the goal, not the result. Because otherwise, it just puts more pressure on my plate. And I was facilitating this large group of people, I’d never had a cervical orgasm. And I just was like, Okay, well, you know, we’re all just kind of follow me follow me this way, this guy.

Thank God, it worked. But like, you know, I really had to find other reasons to make this work valid. And the other reasons are, you know, you meet so much of yourself, when you go inside of yourself, and you confront the darkness inside of yourself. You get to meet all the ways you might judge yourself, shame yourself, make yourself feel inadequate, put pressure on yourself, you know, you know, to orgasm quickly or to be, you know, this way or that way for other people, and it’s a full on mirror. And so you get to heal so much emotionally. And so so this is why self cervix is so much of this about the self aspect. Because ultimately where we’re going, where we’re going is to, like a place, I think evolutionary where we can live freely inside of our own bodies. And where we’ve done this healing, and where we can actually relax into our naturalness and not have to force an outcome or push or fix or change, we just get to relax because it’s safe to be me. And when it’s safe to be me and I accept myself and I love myself, I know, I like how I know how to like, hold myself and create safety for myself. And I my safety is valid and like body belongs here and all of these things, then we’re in a place where we can fully surrender and let go and lean back. You know, and so for many of us, myself included that that is a journey and when I used to say Oh, I’m just not wired that way, you know, I don’t believe that that’s a truth. And you know, it has been mentioned in Naomi Wolf’s book vagina you know, she was talking to Sarah we’re all wired differently and and I read that and I felt such a relief actually because I was like oh good I can so that explains why I can’t really have any kind of other kind of orgasm I must just my clitoral nerves are like far more you know protrusive than anything else. And so I kind of it was good like it was a good validation for me but I don’t believe anymore that that’s actually the full truth I believe that what we actually are dealing with is numbness pain, trauma bulk around the tissue kind of like you know I’m not I’m not I’m not sure what that is called when the fascia that yeah when it but when it’s so when you’ve got a sore muscle you know how it kind of bulges a bit it like it’s like scar tissue or something and bills and it covers and it creates a you know so I think like that’s what we’re dealing with is yes, we’re dealing with an insensitivity that we’re learning how to release and relax and and and and heal and open and let energy and blood flow move back into those places and and and And I think that’s what we’re dealing with. Because I don’t think that it seems I don’t it does not seem right to me that like some people can have, you know, amazing orgasmic life and other people just don’t get to have that experience. I don’t believe that that’s the truth. I think that we’re all here. Humans, feeling being sensing, you know, animals. We’re all highly innovative, it’s just that we will have different circumstances and life paths, that mean that for some of us, we have more access, it’s, it’s easier others, we have to do a little bit of turning the soil and preparing the garden of the body so that, you know, like, flowers can grow. You know, like, I that’s what I think and that mindset kept me on the path. Because if I just thought I don’t ever happen for me, yeah, might have given up, you know,

Well, and that that piece of it, you know, you could say it’s a limiting belief, right, on some, in some ways that, like you said, you read that. And that’s a great book, by the way, for readers who haven’t read the book vagina, I think it’s definitely worth reading. And so something can feel like a relief because it relieves pressure. And I think that’s an important also an important thing that you said, because people you know, and I think of sexism, microcosm, right. And so the cervix, again, it’s a microcosm for the whole system. And if you tend to be a person who’s dealing with more numbness in general, there’s often a lot of frustration and impatience and making yourself wrong. And the practice is self acceptance and being with whatever the experience is. So even if it’s like, hard to exhale, and even find like, you can tighten your pelvic floor, and then bear down and then slowly over time, start to back away from that relate that pushing down, but just letting it be like a sigh, right. And, and so there’s that there’s just a real lot of patience and self acceptance, each step of the way of like, this is where I am now. And this is where I am now. versus people have a lot of pain, there tends to be faster and more feeling like overwhelmed with feeling right that I was more on that end of like, wires for excitement and anxiety were crossed, and there is an overwhelm. sensation, right? Like, any sensation was terrorizing for my system. Yeah.

And what did you do to help you manage that?

So meditation has been huge for me. So first, I had a lot of different kinds of, you know, somatic real trauma release work. And that meant feeling in and through moving in it and through it. And then over time, I use martial arts space practices with my clients to build the capacity, like rewiring the brain through the body through physical practice. And then starting to locate safety inside myself, I could be with a range of sensation over time without getting so blown out, or freezing or feeling terrified, right. So it’s, you know, over time, it’s a practice of building meditation really helps in building a bigger container to be with the experience rather than just kind of spill out through tears or, well, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting, you know, the numbness pain pleasure scale, because when you’re numb, like, it’s very, it’s also it’s just a different scary space to be because it’s like, it just feels like a nothingness. And I often say, Can you just be with the nothingness and I think that’s also when meditation is helpful, because you learn to just be with nothingness, because also within an I’m training, you know, we’re trained like, in the nothingness, there is also a somethingness. Like, what is the quality of this nothingness and so you get them to have a relationship with this numb feeling and numb numbness. But then on the other hand, with people who experience pain, it’s like, it feels like the at least this at least is something to respond or react, you know, at least like, Oh, my body’s alive. And that’s, that’s, you know, I think that the numbness has this kind of really weird or not weird understandably, like unnerving experience of non existence. Yes, like unknowing. 

Exactly. No, there’s no accident in that language. And it’s like that that deadness just think about how intelligent that deadness is, right? Like animals literally become immobilized and play dead. To preserve themselves so that the, you know, it’s like, Oh, if you’re dead, I don’t want to eat you. You’re not me. Right. So there’s such a Yeah. Intelligence. So the tissue I mean, you know, and I think with regards to that, also what what I deal with and what I as somebody who’s facilitating and trying to be Essentially a champion and a bit of a cheerleader for people to be like, okay, you know, like, carry on, don’t give up is like, I’m also working against instant gratification called, I’m kind of working against also hyperbolized messages around sexuality, like just just three, five steps to cervical orgasm, and kind of, you know, these instant how tos, you know, that seem to apply one size fits all to all bodies and, and people come in and depending on what their background is, and what their expectations are, they’re just like, just tell me what to do. Give me the answer, tell me the quick fix, you know, just Yeah, blah, blah, blah. And it’s very, like, actually, this is a whole different ballgame. Like, I mean, not my work anyway, in my work, it’s, it’s, this is a personal development program, because, you know, you are developing your capacity to feel you’re developing your capacity to hold sensation, emotional sensation is part of that, you know, and so, you know, it isn’t just about like, oh, you know, get this toy and put it on the spot, and then tap how you’re gonna have this experience or go into this position, and, and, and fuck for an hour, and then you’re going to have a cervical orgasm, as long as you’re doing doggy style, or whatever it is, you know, it’s like, ridiculous, it’s working on a pure physical level. And that’s why I also resonate with dispenses work because he’s one of the only people that I know whether or not his science is legitimized by the science world has, he’s got one of the only explanations that I can think of, that actually relate to what is actually going on energetically, and where the brain is going. That it’s, it’s a whole process to get to that place. You know, it’s a whole process of settling in becoming present, clearing what’s in the way, and then elevating yourself to a particular place, it’s actually very similar. And, you know, his work is used as a foundation for the third, the journey at the moment.

One of the things that I really love like that you’re that you’re saying, is this, this courageous lack of knowing that you are willing to step into even this idea that you started a group and you’re like, I don’t know what, where we’re going, we’ll see. And I think it is, is perfect metaphor for meditation, you know, it’s like work, let’s not know. And that’s actually key for transformation in terms of Joe’s work, right? Is going into the field, and letting go of anything you know, about who you are, and what your life is, and what your beliefs are, in order for change to happen. Let the let the field work on you let it all go. And so, and that’s, that is really key, like when I’m working with someone somatically there, I tell them, I warn them, you know, as you’re so much shifts, your identity will shift your sense of who you are, your relationships might shift. And, and that’s the thing, like, if you’re going straight to the center, you’re going to women’s center, if you can be with the emotions and the experience and the vulnerability of that. You can it ripples out to other parts of your Latin that’s already a massive win. 

Yeah, that’s, that’s already a massive win. That’s why I just say, well, orgasm is like a really tiny part of this entire journey. Like, a whole journey is like a deep inward turn, like a deep, deep dive into the underworld of yourself, you know, and, you know, speaking of the unknown, like, I’m, I’m back in this place of the unknown again, and I always am actually with this work. It’s crazy, it seems to write itself. And, you know, the program is asking to be rewritten. And I’ve just rewritten the first part. And now I’m, you know, I’m faced with this unknown second part that is, I have no idea how it’s going, what it’s going to be, I know, it’s going to have the same ideas in it, but the whole way of experiencing I think, online learning now has to shift because we’re, you know, in general, tired of just looking at a screen and learning like so. So I’m the work is asking to be to find its way in some kind of different telling. And that is what I’m exploring right now. And the work itself is like this big orgasmic expansion. Yeah, I It’s always important to go out into the unknown, you know, and just to be courageous, and, you know, if you can, if you can find it in yourself, like that is the key. That is the key, I think, to so many things that we want is to be willing to be vulnerable to be willing to, to have it not work out the way you think it does. But be open to what does happen and you know, be an explorer in your own life. And, and, and just create, just Yes, see what can happen when you let go of how you Do you think it should all go or what you expect to happen? It’s your take risks. Mm hmm.

I mean, and that’s the thing is a lot of people, myself included, you know, like, there have been, there was a period of time where I had a plan, I was attached to this, so I’m going to do and then this is going to happen, and I’m going to travel the world, I’m gonna say this, and then I’m in that I’m gonna have a baby and the universe has other plans. And you learn that the, the tighter you hold things. 

Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s a really, that’s very important. And yeah, like, that, you know, you cannot, you cannot make a cervical orgasm happen, right? You cannot, you can do the groundwork, you can prepare the garden of your body, you can learn what is in the way of your surrender. And then, and then it is just you move into a state of release, allow, and surrender, release, allow, receive surrender, and it’s kind of like those four words. And so the work is about learning, how can I receive? So in the initiation journey that’s just run? It’s like, there’s two main ways to receive and getting really good at them. And then what can I release, which is the second journey, and it’s like, all the things that I can just let go of. And then the third journey is how do I surrender? I used to go to these workshops, and people would just let go and just surrender, just let go. That’d be like hell you talking about, I can’t just surrender and let go. There’s all these people screaming and moaning in the room. I’m just like, I can’t. Or like, you know, we’re the lover. And you know, it’s like, oh, just just let go, just let go. I’m just like, I can’t let go. Because I feel so much pressure right now, whatever. You know, it’s funny, that that right there is so important, because, you know, I want to make sure that lovers out there lovers of people who have cervixes, this is not something to take home, and then put pressure on somebody to do this. This isn’t like a new performance trick, you know, like, Oh, we’re gonna I’m gonna, you know, be flat. Exactly. Please, just don’t abuse this. Don’t pressure anybody. And you know, and that the piece that you’re saying, which I want to, you know, I love actually what I call, like, micro successes, and going really, you know, modulating and turning the knob to these tiny little, like, centimeter marks for different clients, right, like, where are they? And I know, safety. It’s like the concept of safety. That is an absurd thing. If you haven’t felt it on a visceral level, like, what does that even mean? And so building towards that through the front steps. So there is an order that things although healing happens in a spiral, and we keep revisiting things. There are certain things we need to build inside of ourselves like we need, I found for myself at least boundaries before I could become boundary less and bound less. Like Joe’s work is not great for people who are really terrified and are trying to work on having boundaries, if they’re like, oh, yeah, I don’t, I can’t go into the field, you know. And so it’s not every there, I just want to emphasize that there’s what I like so much about your work, because I feel like there’s this range, it’s not going into a power yoga class where everyone does the same movement. Okay, so if you’re a beginner, you can start here. And I just felt like it’s so gentle. And I just really love that there’s a lot of a lot of compassion in your work.

Yeah, I don’t know where that comes from. Maybe because they understand because I’ve been there, I guess. And, and I do think like, I do, I don’t want to contribute to the conversation around you no pressure, I just don’t want to contribute to that conversation. I want everybody to feel like, like what you said micro successes. Oh, good. I actually learned that I can say no, that yes, a massive thing. Or I’ve learned that it’s absolutely okay. For me. As I say, for example, I facilitate a first touch practice, you know, in the initiation journey, and part of the thing is, like, you know, you may not want to go in and you must hold with honor, like hold with absolute self respect and honor. Because you know, that it’s, it’s a wonderful gift to give to yourself. And that is something to be so proud of, you know, it’s like, oh, yeah, I’m gonna hold myself with honor. I’m just going to have my hand outside of my body and just hold there, you know, and that to me is it gives gives all experiences like validation and self worth. And yeah, it’s all worthy. It’s all good. Like, what are we trying to do here? We’re just we’re trying to feel more and if we keep doing what other people have done to us, like push past our boundaries or what we have done to with us selves to take responsibility the times when I’ve just been mute, and couldn’t speak, because I didn’t, I hadn’t yet developed that part of myself. You know? Yeah. So I wouldn’t I no longer need to do that to myself. And then then the tissue starts to know, it’s safe. And this touch is loving.

Yes, yes. This this piece and what I’m picturing, as you’re saying that, right is even if you hold your hand or if you have a wand, and you’re holding it outside your body, and you actually ask your body, do you want this now? And what does your does your body get tight? Does it start to open? Like, what are the signs that a yes is happening? Because I really teach embodied knows before you can have an authentic Yes. And so then it’s like, oh, okay, if the body that really actually saying it out loud listening. And then being able to so that you’re in a dialogue with your body at unlike what has so you know, happened so commonly, for so many teenage teenagers in general, it’s like crossing their own boundaries, because they want to be liked, or they are doing what they’re think they’re supposed to do, and that those become adults who do the same thing. I so so one of the things I wanted to give you the opportunity, if you want to say more, I noticed on your website, there’s a research project.

Oh, yeah, like that’s really cool if anybody if anybody has had experiences of cervical pleasure or orgasm, so it doesn’t matter if you’re haven’t yet experienced an orgasm. But if you can feel your cervix and you feel pleasurable, we are trying to collect testimonies and experiences so that we can change the conversation in the medical world because in the medical world, the doctors don’t believe that the cervix can orgasm they think it just it just performs the AppSec maneuver to draw sperm upwards they I’ve had serious debates with female doctors about this, which is pretty depressing. I’m like, Don’t you just want to read this research, don’t you just a little bit interested and they’re very, you know, stuck, you know that gynecological students still get don’t get taught about the nerves to the cervix, which is in sane. And you know, this is happening all over the world that gynecological students are not being taught about the neural pathways to the cervix. And I get, you know, PhD students writing to me saying this is your work is saying the opposite. So we’re trying to change the conversation. So if you have had pleasure or orgasm via your cervix, please go to our site, self service.com Fill in the project, fill in the survey, it doesn’t take long. And it just helps us kind of go hey, here, here’s some more experiences. And, you know, I’m hoping to get them published in the journal sexual medicine or somewhere that can so that we can start to take this so that it can be taken a bit more seriously in the medical world. You know, my my downfall is that I don’t have the PhD after my name. And you know, so the more experiential research coming in, the more the cervix has a chance of being, you know, recognized for its full capacity, not just as not, not as a birthing organ. 

Right, right for for just not just an organ that sucks up sperm. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, it’s a pragmatic function. Yeah, yeah. It’s not nom, it’s not supposed to be numb. You know, it’s not supposed to be painful. If your doctor tells you that it is the cervix is numb, don’t worry about it before they give you a leap procedure. Question that so yeah, there’s just feels like to me it’s such radical self acceptance. And it’s a way of shedding internalized sexism. That you know, for not just us, as you said, which I freaking love it. We’re not just doing this for ourselves. We’re doing it for our ancestors. Right? And the ones that exactly future generations because like what you heal inside yourself, you get to you get to model for your young ones, as well as you know, grieve for your ancestors. I’m wondering, I’ve just loved loved love talking with you. And I’m wondering if you could leave us with a brief exercise. Like just if you were to give a five minute exercise for someone who’s just starting to even think about well,

I think the first thing to do is to even Well, I think the first exercise would be to go check out your cervix, if you can, if you have the feeling that it’s okay for you to check in with your body. Go find your cervix, it was likely to be not up top like you would see in the medical diagrams. It’s likely to be off to the side. My mind for example is right off to the side. And if you way to check in where your cervix is, it’s good to short and your body in some kind of, you know, either squatting up, some people can have to sit on the toilet because squatting is too difficult. Or you can put your butt right up. And the first thing to do is to feel your cervix and it feels like the tip of your nose, or like a donor, there’s like a, it’s like a different kind of tissue, there’s like feels like a little bit of a lot of people think there’s a growth inside of the vagina. It’s not, it’s your cervix. And then I think that in terms of an exercise, it would be in your meditation practice, practicing dropping into your pelvis and doing what I call pelvic presence. So it’s not specific to the cervix, sometimes it’s good to go general, with the cervix. So this would be for you, if you don’t feel comfortable touching it go general. And just see if you can bring your mind into the right and left sides of the pelvis, I think you can get a free download of the via our Instagram, and you literally track with your mind inside of your pelvis feeling and imagining where all the organs might be and and all the way around. And then you slowly narrow your focus to where you imagine the cervix might be. And then you hold your focus at the cervix, where you imagine the cervix might be for as long as you can. So we call it pelvic presence, and you can get it by our Instagram sites off cervix. So yeah, that’s what I would say is, you know, notice where your attention goes during the day, like how often you’re up in your head and when you’re driving or on your computer. Right now, as you’re listening to this is your belly tight, you know, how’s your pelvic floor like, you know, my belly is tight right now like I’m like concentrating and I’m up here I can everything’s pulling upwards. So just as you’re listening, and as you’re going about your day, or when you’re watching Netflix or whatever it is just check in is your lower belly relaxed, you know and start this process of deeply relaxing downwards. So that’s three things but you know the three things that you can bring your awareness to 

Thank you so much. Is there anything else that you would like to share? How about your, your website or your Instagram handle? 

Yeah, so selfcervix.com And Instagram is to selfcervix. And we will be if they want to do this initiation journey and we’ll be coming up for self study really soon. If you know or if you’re not a beginner, you can jump into our release journey coming up in November.

My hope is this inspires you to connect more deeply with yourself whether that’s to unwind trauma, or experience more pleasure independent of a partner. Knowing what feels good to us starts with self exploration. You can follow me on Instagram or Facebook at laid open podcast, or read more of my writing or read more about my work at passionate life.org or late open podcast.com. You can also send me any sex and trauma questions you have that you’d like me to answer at late open podcast@gmail.com. Thanks so much and I look forward to seeing you next time.

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© 2022 By Charna Cassell, LMFT. Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. MFC 51238.

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